Drums: Richard Christy is GODLIKE...only Scott Travis, Nicko McBrain, and Lars Ulrich during the 80's and early 90's (or REALLY motivated now) can hope to surpass him. However, he's only been with the band for one album; Van Williams has been playing monster grooves with Nevermore for the past seven years or so. As somebody mentioned, Richie is more of a speed player against Van's flowing, jazz-influenced(?) beats, so it's hard to compare. But I'll go with the Seattle boys on this one. IE 2, NVR 3 }
Yes, richard christy is godlike. BUT he is held back something chronic on Horrorshow... go and get a real Christy record, like Death's "The Sound of Perseverance" and listen to what he can do when there's a decent guitarist playing in front of him.
Your comment about Nicko McBrain and Lars actually made me laugh. Nicko is the better of the two, but neither men have ever been good drummers. "Kicksnarekicksnare" yeah, that's great guys, it's the same thing and same fill for every song... where did you learn to drum? Oh, that's right, you DIDN'T learn to drum
Lars was, at one point, an INCREDIBLE drummer with a great sense for music and exactly where to place everything
Again, Lars was never a good drummer. He keeps the beat, like every pop drummer does, nothing special. The only album where he was even half okay was ...And Justice for all, Metallica's most brilliant album, one of my favourites ever, and that's because he recorded it basically phrase by phrase. Have you ever heard them play dyers eve live? No. No you haven't, because he can't play it live, it was recorded section by section, he is a horrible drummer, and has always been.
Also refer to what Jimbob said. You're gunna get laughed at if you say that dude. You could go and pick up a pair of drumsticks and drum to just about any metallica song you wanted, fills and all, in about ten minutes. Wanna try that with seven tongues of god or Next in line? I think now.
Lyrics: Probably gonna catch heat for this, but how many times can you say "Drugs are not as bad as murder!" before it gets old? I know I'm generalizing, but I like Jon's varied, emotional approach more than the stuff Warrel writes. Even though Horror Show was a bit weighty on the cheese factor for some songs, the moral allegories of "Frankenstein" and "Dracula" were pretty kickass. And as a fiction writer, I'm very into the lyrical aspect of stuff like Night Of the Stormrider and the Something Wicked trilogy. That being said, Dreaming Neon Black drips awesomeness like a gravy-soaked turkey (mmm, turkey), and I'd love to see Dane write that novel he's talked about. In any case, Iced Earth by inches. IE 3, NVR 3
YOu're making it REAL hard for me not to flame you dude. Lets take some Iced Earth lyrics for starters:
So the beast resides in me Deep down I always knew I never really did fit in So diverse from all of you Let him who understands Know the number of the beast It's a number of a man A number just for me
Idiotic is all i can say. Now, we take some nevermore lyrics:
"Time has no meaning for me. She is gone,
and the void speaks to me"
You paint the sky in obsidian lies
And come what may never will I know how you changed time
The riptide lies ahead, all my passions now are dead
I can see the path you never thought to follow
I feel so hollow
I stand before you, a shadow of a man
Behind these eyes self destruction swims through my mind
I'm confusion and contempt, I am the void
You are the emptiness of black tomorrow
I feel so hollow
Compare the two. A song about a guy with bolts in his neck and a 15 inch dick, or the song about a lost love being brainwashed in front of your eyes... Yeah, iced earth writes better lyrics
Songwriting: An oft-overlooked aspect of music - structure and timing. Where are the solos? Do you play the intro for four measures, or eight? When does the vocalist break in with his spine-chilling scream? Iced Earth is the clear winner here - Jon's approach to running the band may raise some hackles among you damn Commies , but he writes perfectly structured songs with wicked riffs. Take "The Hunter" as an example. Nevermore has a bad habit of "musical masturbation" - that is, going into displays of mind-blowing talent that serve no real purpose. Prog bands are infamous for this. They've gotten a lot better with DHIADW, but PoE had some REALLY bad moments. IE 4, NVR 3
No. Schaffer, just like old metallica, writes the blatantly obvious, and inherantly more catchy tunes. Nevermore is food for thought, Iced earth is simply a bite from a sour apple.
The Politics of Ecstasy is a brilliant peice of songwriting, a song that's easy to get into, like next in line, or this sacrament conveys musical maturity that iced earth couldn't even dream about... then there is the "Musical masturbation". Nevermore have never been a wanking band, and jeff isn't a wanking guitarist. I don't see any shrill excessive sweeps, or runs from the first to the 24'th fret... there's none of that. Progressive metal is where it's at dude, it's art, and someone that thinks that Iced Earth are better writers than Jeff Loomis has no clue. You would honestly say that "violate" is a better written peice of music than Matricide, or Beyond within? Hell, even Iced Earth's better stuff (Like The Coming Curse) isn't as good as nevermore's worst stuff (Narcosynthesis etc).
Now, lets get something straight buddy, Dead Heart is a terrible album compared to older nevermore, or even sanctuary... they haven't improved at all... they are becoming iced earth. Take a look at Horror Show and Dead Heart, the songs are interchangeable between each other, it's basically the same album from both bands... and that's pretty sad, considering The Dark Saga and POE were light years apart a while ago...
Politics of Ecstasy has only ONE bad moment, and that's Passenger. You're obviously not a musician, at least not a good one, you're also obviously not a journeyman or a seeker either, you want a peice of mean slapped in front of you dripping in sauce and a can of beer (Iced Earth, simple music dressed up with catchy melodies and catchy choruses), whereas I prefer a nicely cut steak sandwich with a glass of juice on the side (Nevermore, complex music conveying the journey though someone's dreaming mind).
Granted, Iced Earth have their merits, but to say things like "Schaffer is a better rhythm player" and "Schaffer has the rhythm chops", when quite frankly he has, and is neither... simply doesn't do too much for your credibility
If you want simple, mindless music, go listen to creed, they've actually got a better guitarplayer than schaffer... but if you want to think, and you want to dream, then come back to the nevermore board and we'll have a chat.
