Are you christian and like Black Metal?

[Dr Psyklonic]

This thread makes me sick. Are there worse things than christian Americans? I doubt it. What's the fucking matter with you?

Till ugnarna med er!!!!!!

Americans that use christianity as an excuse to do un-christian things (Bush anybody?)

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Quote:

Gospel music is music in any style whose lyric is:

* substantially based upon historically orthodox Christian truth contained in or derived from the Holy Bible;
* and/or an expression of worship of God or praise for His works;
* and/or testimony of relationship with God through Christ;
* and/or obviously prompted and informed by a Christian world view.


Now, assuming that the above definition of "gospel music" is true, can I make "gospel music" about worshipping Satan? NO. Could I play music that sounds like most gospel music groups, yet have lyrics about Satan? YES, but then I could NOT call it "gospel music." It's the SAME FUCKING WAY WITH BLACK METAL. Do you comprehend yet? THE FACTOR THAT ULTIMATELY DECIDES IF A BAND PLAYS BLACK METAL IS IDEOLOGY.

I see the point you're trying to make, but a gospel choir doesn't necessarily have to sing gospel music.

I could sing gospel, and it would be "contradictory" because I'm not Christian. Or actually it wouldn't. There's nothing wrong with me singing gospel. And a gospel choir singing Satanic music would be Satanic gospel. Gospel has evolved to an actual style. Usually a husky black man singing Amazing Grace. But you see what I'm saying.

Satanic gospel can exist, as can Christian black metal. And if a band came out sounding like Emperor with Christian lyrics, not calling them black metal would be very discriminatory, methinks.

To you it might seem like I don't know what I'm talking about. But trust me, I do. I don't think what the original black metallers intended black metal and its ideology to be has limited the style in any way. If I created the band I said, there is nothing you can say that makes us any less black metal. "They don't sing about Satan!" Yeah, so. Fuck you.

It's why CoF aren't black metal. Their lyrics are plenty Satanic and their songs full of the imagery associated with the black metal scene. Forests, werewolves, vampires, Bathory, everything...

They sound like a heavy Goth band. They have crystal clear production. And their music doesn't sound the slightest bit 'cold.' Therefore they are not black metal.

And people like Living Inside are what truly cause me to laugh. The best we can call a Christian band is gospel rock, because Christian lyrics don't equate to being 'metal.'

 

[Under The Oak]

Cells, Atoms come from themselves. A human being can not make a cell unless it has other cells which cancells the whole thing on a higher power/person/God whatever making them or humans because he would need a cell before creation(regardless back then it would be imposible). Cells, Atoms, etc.... there is so many over time that the cells all did not connect properly and had a reaction which formed life and the planets etc.....(it only took one fuck up to trigger it) which I am pretty sure is the big bang theory that started the simple repeating cycle that we call life. We come from the most basic cell that survived on basic instinct and evolved over time and there was not actually life for along time and just planets rotating endless with no time perception.

There was always atoms and cells and they will never go away. EVER regardless when all human/animal life dies. There is no where for atoms and cells to go and they have and never will find a place or die.

There is 2 things A(life) B(death) and from A to B how long we can survive and what we can do from when we are born to when we die. Right when you are born you are already on a downfall till death(the planet also). Us at a much faster rate

A lot of people and christians/religions confuse it all and make such a simple cycle and way of living more hard and technical than how it was suppose to be in the beginning. Pretty much for greed and control reasons. And when you look at it all and why the world is the way it is now that is why. The mess is so huge at this point that is is imposible to fix/clean it or reverse what went wrong. It is not longer just spilling a glass of water. It is so far gone that everyone covers the truth up because they realized they are completly fucked and walking dumbfounded dipshits and make up something that can guide human beings to beleiving that there is something better out there that is never delivered or seen by any human that believes it.

Wow, you certainly are one of the masters here at forming incoherent crap. From what I gathered in that mass of extremely horrible grammar, you think organisms are regenerative? I still don't quite know how you to came to such a conclusion, because apparently you believe there is nothing after death - so that pretty much ends the "cycle" theory right there.

Even if the big bang thing happened, you'd still have to ask where IT came from. To cause an explosion that produces life and years of evolution, you'd still need to have a chemical reaction that created the explosion.

 

[JColtrane]

Cells, Atoms come from themselves. A human being can not make a cell unless it has other cells which cancells the whole thing on a higher power/person/God whatever making them or humans because he would need a cell before creation(regardless back then it would be imposible). Cells, Atoms, etc.... there is so many over time that the cells all did not connect properly and had a reaction which formed life and the planets etc.....(it only took one fuck up to trigger it) which I am pretty sure is the big bang theory that started the simple repeating cycle that we call life. We come from the most basic cell that survived on basic instinct and evolved over time and there was not actually life for along time and just planets rotating endless with no time perception.

There was always atoms and cells and they will never go away. EVER regardless when all human/animal life dies. There is no where for atoms and cells to go and they have and never will find a place or die.
There is 2 things A(life) B(death) and from A to B how long we can survive and what we can do from when we are born to when we die. Right when you are born you are already on a downfall till death(the planet also). Us at a much faster rate

A lot of people and christians/religions confuse it all and make such a simple cycle and way of living more hard and technical than how it was suppose to be in the beginning. Pretty much for greed and control reasons. And when you look at it all and why the world is the way it is now that is why. The mess is so huge at this point that is is imposible to fix/clean it or reverse what went wrong. It is not longer just spilling a glass of water. It is so far gone that everyone covers the truth up because they realized they are completly fucked and walking dumbfounded dipshits and make up something that can guide human beings to beleiving that there is something better out there that is never delivered or seen by any human that believes it.

I know this converstation is a little off topic, but I am interested in this statement, b/c first you say that cells and atoms come from themselves, then you say that there was a cell, or many cells(i can't tell which one you think). So where did that first cell come from? Basically you just contradicted yourself. You said that cells came from each other but didn't say where the first one came from, so how do you get your first cell to make all the other ones. You said that God would need a cell to create the universe, but that doesn't make any sense b/c he could just make that cell. Basically your statement sums up the Big Bang theory: In the beginning, there was nothing. Then it exploded and here we are. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like common sense to me.

 

[Profanity]

A christian who likes black metal is a satanist in the making.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Even if the big bang thing happened, you'd still have to ask where IT came from. To cause an explosion that produces life and years of evolution, you'd still need to have a chemical reaction that created the explosion.

Or maybe God caused the Big Bang to happen.

And Adam and Eve were the first true modern humans(Homo sapiens sapiens).

A christian who likes black metal is a satanist in the making.

Perhaps.

What about Satansists listening to Creed?

I know this converstation is a little off topic, but I am interested in this statement, b/c first you say that cells and atoms come from themselves, then you say that there was a cell, or many cells(i can't tell which one you think). So where did that first cell come from? Basically you just contradicted yourself. You said that cells came from each other but didn't say where the first one came from, so how do you get your first cell to make all the other ones. You said that God would need a cell to create the universe, but that doesn't make any sense b/c he could just make that cell. Basically your statement sums up the Big Bang theory: In the beginning, there was nothing. Then it exploded and here we are. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like common sense to me.

I think Trane just pwned you.

 

[R.I.P.2]

I see the point you're trying to make

After seeing the rest of your post, you really don't.

His point:

BLACK METAL = THE AESTHETIC QUALITIES OF BLACK METAL + THE IDEOLOGY

THE AESTHETICS WITHOUT THE IDEOLOGY DOES NOT = BLACK METAL

THE IDEOLOGY WITHOUT THE AESTHETICS OF BLACK METAL DOES NOT = BLACK METAL

 

[anonymousnick2001]

His point:

BLACK METAL = THE AESTHETIC QUALITIES OF BLACK METAL + THE IDEOLOGY

THE AESTHETICS WITHOUT THE IDEOLOGY DOES NOT = BLACK METAL

THE IDEOLOGY WITHOUT THE AESTHETICS OF BLACK METAL DOES NOT = BLACK METAL

Yeah, I got that. Actually, thanks a lot for making it so clear, now my work is easier.

That's not true.

No music is defined by a mixture of ideology and aesthetics. Emo-punk about blood and guts is defined as emo-punk with gore lyrics. If it sounds like New Found Glory, with lyrics of Cannibal Corpse, that is the description. No one will say that it's not 'emo-punk' just because the lyrics aren't about girlfriends. They'll just state the difference.

Black metal with Christian lyrics is still black metal.

In the end, I guess it just boils down to a matter of perspective and ultimately, personal preference.

 

[Erik]

That's not true.

No music is defined by a mixture of ideology and aesthetics.

No style of music is defined by anything but musical qualities.

True.

Now understand this: BLACK METAL IS NOT A STYLE OF MUSIC, IT IS AN IDEOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Now understand this: BLACK METAL IS NOT A STYLE OF MUSIC, IT IS AN IDEOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT

Are you sure?

Doesn't that sound even a lttle silly to you?

 

[Erik]

No, because I fucking GET it.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Alright, perhaps I don't get it.

Explain how black metal is an ideological construct. Without talking to me like I'm 5. I get the history and I listen to the music. Explain how it(a style of music, methinks) could possibly be a way of life. A tangible thing. With ideology behind it.

How?

 

[Erik]

http://www.raging-metal.d2g.com/columns/tfnw/0003.html

Read section 1.2. This is written by someone who clearly gets it much more than you do, and puts the whole thing more succinctly than I could or would care to.

 

[Black Winter Day]

i can see where both of you are coming from and could see either side of each argument. erik obviously is immersed in the genre and if anyone knows black metal, it is him. to him, as with most hardcore BM fans i've come acoss in the past, it is much more that music, it is an ideal, a lifestyle and sublimated feeling. to the average metal fan (anonymousnick, i'm not saying you are "average", just that you do not appear to be a hardcore fan ), genre categorizations are much easier to deal with because of the broad scope of music in general. hovever, partial and broad generalizations about a genre that many people become simply ENTRENCHED within simply will not go over well with them. it is all about perspective: anonymousnick has a broad view, erik has a centered view (not saying that either side is better than another). once again, all about perspective. black metal people "get it" (the whole idealism, etc.) while "broad" metal fans usually don't. no harm done...

i hope this added to the discussion in SOME way at least...

 

[anonymousnick2001]

i can see where both of you are coming from and could see either side of each argument. erik obviously is immersed in the genre and if anyone knows black metal, it is him. to him, as with most hardcore BM fans i've come acoss in the past, it is much more that music, it is an ideal, a lifestyle and sublimated feeling. to the average metal fan (anonymousnick, i'm not saying you are "average", just that you do not appear to be a hardcore fan ), genre categorizations are much easier to deal with because of the broad scope of music in general. hovever, partial and broad generalizations about a genre that many people become simply ENTRENCHED within simply will not go over well with them. it is all about perspective: anonymousnick has a broad view, erik has a centered view (not saying that either side is better than another). once again, all about perspective. black metal people "get it" (the whole idealism, etc.) while "broad" metal fans usually don't. no harm done...

i hope this added to the discussion in SOME way at least...

Yes. You're right. Differing viewpoints.

@Erik, I read the entire FAQ. I've never heard of a style of music existing in such a fashion where the ideoogy defines nearly all of it. Oh well. I still like the sound of it, and it'll never mean anything to me more than that. And the same goes for Christians listening to it. They listen to it for the music.

The same could be argued for hip-hop and rap. If it doesn't fit the ideology, it's not...oh wait, never mind. That's not true.

This could be why a lot of elitism stems from black metal purists.

However, I must question one thing. The author of the FAQ is obviously a black metal purist. I wonder if that interfered with any of the information. I sensed a dry, cynical, elitist's tone in the writing. Just saying...

Erik, I respect your claims and beliefs. However, I wonder why 'faggoth' and 'norsecore' bands refer to themselves as black metal. I wonder how long such an ideology can be maintained. I bring back the hip-hop comparison. It was originally meant to be a form of artistic self-expression for an urban population that couldn't afford traditional instrumentation. Now it as become all about cars, women, money, and being a "gangsta." Now, rap is a multicultural phenomenon, instead of simply one of urban African-Americans. How long can the centered view last? I have not heard the word faggoth until today. How many others are the same? Are we all sheep? How long will black metal remain a pure form of music and ideology only attainable by the core fans and not the populace?

I wonder. And I, or someone else, will probably bust the floodgates wide open much like Vanilla Ice, N.W.A., MC Hammer, and Sir-Mix-A-Lot did for hip-hop. What then?

 

[Hell Mike]

BWD, you are right, but the hardcore side of things is the better and correct one.
That black metal biography sums it all up rather good

 

[Hell Mike]

The noresecore and faggoth bands already opened those gates, or at least tried to.
Those bands refer to themselves as 'black metal' (Not all do) to look evil, which will attract listeners. Some (Mainly norsecore acts, probably) consider themselves black metal. Even I listen to Marduk, for an example.

 

[Erik]

I've never heard of a style of music existing in such a fashion where the ideoogy defines nearly all of it. Oh well. I still like the sound of it, and it'll never mean anything to me more than that. And the same goes for Christians listening to it. They listen to it for the music.

That's fine that you only listen to it for the music. I enjoy black metal on several levels, although I am not a Satanist. However, you still refer to black metal as "a style of music" when I'd rather say that it is an ideology carried forth through music.

The author of the FAQ is obviously a black metal purist. I wonder if that interfered with any of the information. I sensed a dry, cynical, elitist's tone in the writing.

Perhaps, but filtering that out, it is quite obvious that he also knows what he is speaking of. By the way, you might know him from these boards as Dying Sun or one of a number of other handles.

However, I wonder why 'faggoth' and 'norsecore' bands refer to themselves as black metal. I wonder how long such an ideology can be maintaine

People who aren't very understanding of the concept, both listeners and bands, tend to call such stuff black metal -- these bands have the kind of view that you have/had of black metal, hence they call themselves black metal. For the record, I am not one to throw around the term "norsecore" too often, I reckon it is a bit too extreme to say that bands such as Dark Funeral and Marduk are grindcore more than they are metal. They have certainly strayed far from the musical roots of traditional black metal but I hear metal in it. I would call Dark Funeral black metal, though the music is ridiculously dumbed down and I'm not sure how serious they are with the ideological part. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

BWD, you are right, but the hardcore side of things is the better and correct one.

I'm sorry, but I found that quite hilarious.

There are those who believe in something while still understanding everyone else's beliefs. Then there are idiots.

At least Erik hasn't shown himself to be an idiot. I respect him for that. In fact, he aided my understanding of his thinking. I still don't agree. But I think the both of us agree to disagree, and that ends that.

You on the other hand...well, go carve swastikas in the gr1m kVlt forest all night. I doubt you'll gain any respect no matter what, so might as well do what you like. Maybe Euronymous's soul will be reborn and the two of you can have hot monkey sex in Varg's old apartment. I could care less.

 

[Erik]

Also, this:

How long will black metal remain a pure form of music and ideology only attainable by the core fans and not the populace?

Until about 1995..?