Are you christian and like Black Metal?

[anonymousnick2001]

That's fine that you only listen to it for the music. I enjoy black metal on several levels, although I am not a Satanist. However, you still refer to black metal as "a style of music" when I'd rather say that it is an ideology carried forth through music.

That's cool. Each to their own. Let's agree to disagree on this one, mate.

Perhaps, but filtering that out, it is quite obvious that he also knows what he is speaking of. By the way, you might know him from these boards as Dying Sun or one of a number of other handles.

Yeah, he does. And I have seen that name around...

People who aren't very understanding of the concept, both listeners and bands, tend to call such stuff black metal -- these bands have the kind of view that you have/had of black metal, hence they call themselves black metal. For the record, I am not one to throw around the term "norsecore" too often, I reckon it is a bit too extreme to say that bands such as Dark Funeral and Marduk are grindcore more than they are metal. They have certainly strayed far from the musical roots of traditional black metal but I hear metal in it. I would call Dark Funeral black metal, though the music is ridiculously dumbed down and I'm not sure how serious they are with the ideological part. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

See, some of it does have to do with perception. But again, each to their own.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Until about 1995..?

I'm guessing that was because of In The Nightside Eclipse?

Good album. Funny, though, because the lyrics on that one seem to be about mysticism and running around the forest more than anti-establishment and anti-Judeochristian.

 

[Black Winter Day]

black metal, in my opinion, attracted the biggest cult following and hardcore fan-base for one main reason: black metal is one of the few genres that is not about progression. there have been many black metal innovators like aborym, abigor, helheim, etc., but the core fan base rests mainly in stagnation (grim production, simplicity, un-attractiveness)... thus any signs of "progression" are usually deemed un-true (although this does not include norsecore bands, who are stagnant, but never really black metal in the first place nor does it include "faggoth" bands, who strive for more popular acceptance). as long as you don't leave the circle (musically nor idealogically), you are fine. strangely enough, some black metal fans are fairly open minded.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

You must forgive me, but that's just weird!

 

[Black Winter Day]

You must forgive me, but that's just weird!

which part?

 

[Under The Oak]

You must forgive me, but that's just weird!

It seems so, but I see where he's coming from. That's why I like black metal though, the real BM bands don't really change. That gives us assurance that we won't have another Metallica in a BM form! Still, going by the textbook definitions, what should we call black metal that isn't Satanic? Because it seems the majority of you are focusing on the Satanic, low-production quality bands that are the "true" BM ones. So what would you call Emperor if they're not black metal now? And how would you define something that's musically the same, but has a different idealogy? What would you label such a style (and don't give me any lame answers like "bullshit", cuz it only shows your poor maturity level)?

 

[Hell Mike]

I'm sorry, but I found that quite hilarious.

There are those who believe in something while still understanding everyone else's beliefs. Then there are idiots.

At least Erik hasn't shown himself to be an idiot. I respect him for that. In fact, he aided my understanding of his thinking. I still don't agree. But I think the both of us agree to disagree, and that ends that.

You on the other hand...well, go carve swastikas in the gr1m kVlt forest all night. I doubt you'll gain any respect no matter what, so might as well do what you like. Maybe Euronymous's soul will be reborn and the two of you can have hot monkey sex in Varg's old apartment. I could care less.

I believe in something and I do understand your beliefs, I simply do not agree. It's funny how you automatically think of me as a gay nazi because I'm quite blunt in telling you so. For the record, I'm not a gay nazi (Does such exist?) Indeed, it was nice of Erik to explain how 'black metal purists' tend to think, but I will not have any tolerance for stupidity. I define 'black metal' wider than that myself, but I'm aware of the 'correct' definition.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Your all fucking morons, you have no idea what the fuck your on about. black metal is about satanism and destruction. christians are stupid. christians listening to black metal is one of the biggest jokes in 'metal' history. fuck all your shit.

Do everyone a favor and end your mortal life...please...

 

[Erik]

I'm guessing that was because of In The Nightside Eclipse?

Good album. Funny, though, because the lyrics on that one seem to be about mysticism and running around the forest more than anti-establishment and anti-Judeochristian.

I didn't really think of that album, which was released in 1994, but anyway... Around 1995, after the death of Euronymous and with him pretty much all organization the black metal movement in Norway had, black metal (or what once was black metal,) which had previously been perceived as something very obscure and extreme, understood and listened to only by very few, became more and more accepted among metal fans in general and received a lot of press, what with the murders and burnings and all... So then more and more people would start their own "black metal" bands, and a lot of bands (DIMMU BORGIR, SATYRICON, EMPEROR) started to water down their music and ideology because they "matured" (ha ha) or strived for commercial success... And with that, "black metal" became something that every metal fan knew about and quite generally accepted. Now, there is a large black metal underground with people who uphold the traditional values, and then there's the "mainstream" bands with little ideology. Before about 1995, black metal was more coherent and decidedly more underground and elitist. I hope I'm making some sense.

As for the lyrics on ITNE, well, firstly a lot of stuff on there praises Satan, and anyway, writing about seeking solace in forests (etc.) away from the establishment and humanity in general seems to me to be something that is very compatible with BM ideology.

Another thing to note is that while black metal may be defined by the values outlined in aforementioned FAQ (or something not far from that, anyway) that doesn't mean every lyric every BM band writes must incorporate every part of the ideology.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

This is easily argument is easily simplified:

A christian can't listen to black metal because the lyrics are satanic.
To listen to the music is to support the lyrics.
If you listen to black metal you are therefor a satanist.



or

anyone can listen to what they want to

From what i'm led to believe, the satanic overtones in the black metal culture weren't really ever (or maybe originally) about being a satanist. In norway christianity overtook that countries traditional beliefs and gods etc. Those in the black metal scene didn't like it and wanted to follow the old ways. Making satanic music was a way they voiced their opinion. The church burning was a further display of that contempt with christianity. So basically, what i'm getting at is that it wasn't really making music about their worship of a deity as much as just rebeling against something they despised for another reason.

I hate religious debates.

The second is correct. We have a winner.

 

[no country for old wainds]

The bottom line is:

Person 1: "I listen to music as art. This means that I consider all aspects of an album, right down to the cover art. Through the music I feel and experience the ideas that the creator is expressing. If the idea is directly contradicting my worldview, I obviously don't enjoy it, because it means nothing to me."

Person 2: "I listen to music as entertainment. I listen to the music that sounds best to my ears. I don't analyse it, or take it seriously, although it may still be very important to me. I can ignore the ideologies which directly contradict my worldview, because the music still sounds great and that's all I look for in music."

Take your pick and shut up.

 

[Abou]

The second is correct. We have a winner.

 

[Black Winter Day]

So then more and more people would start their own "black metal" bands, and a lot of bands (DIMMU BORGIR, SATYRICON, EMPEROR) started to water down their music and ideology because they "matured" (ha ha) or strived for commercial success...

i don't really agree with this... emperor never "watered down" their music (although you may see it that way), they actually became much more complex than they were during their relatively short tenure in black metal... even though i still consider 'Anthems...' to be BM for the most part. nothing after that, however, can be dubbed black metal. neither can anything dimmu or satyricon have done since 'stormblast' (debatable in itself, i know) or 'nemesis divina', respectively.

 

[Erik]

I reckon "Stormblåst" is a great album, and, yes, black metal. Kindly spare me subsequent DB releases. Haven't heard all of "Nemesis Divina" but, although it is a fairly good album, I found Satyricon began to be questionable already with "The Shadowthrone."

Emperor. Well. "Anthems..." is decent but it is clear that it is the beginning of the end for Emperor. Also, when I say "watered down" I mean that from a black metal perspective. They could have shifted to be the world's greatest and most complex death metal band, or whatever; I meant they watered down the black metal in them.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Emperor never knew how to structure songs. And that became rather evident when they tried to do something more 'complex' than their brand of black metal. Anthems is too chaotic with too much pretentious meandering and no direction. It can't be black metal, for it lacks any of the atmosphere that's vital to the genre.

 

[Black Winter Day]

i am a fan of pretentious meandering/wankery. thus, i like the later emperor material.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I disagree. Emperor have always had a linear approach to songwriting.

Another thing to note is that while black metal may be defined by the values outlined in aforementioned FAQ (or something not far from that, anyway) that doesn't mean every lyric every BM band writes must incorporate every part of the ideology.

So if a Christian band plays black metal with lyrics that are still anti-establishment(in this case, government) would they be tr00 black metal?

I believe in something and I do understand your beliefs, I simply do not agree. It's funny how you automatically think of me as a gay nazi because I'm quite blunt in telling you so. For the record, I'm not a gay nazi (Does such exist?) Indeed, it was nice of Erik to explain how 'black metal purists' tend to think, but I will not have any tolerance for stupidity. I define 'black metal' wider than that myself, but I'm aware of the 'correct' definition.

OK, man. I apologize. Your previous posts didn't seem to indicate that.

I am now aware of the actual definition. However, in my mind I consider black metal to be music that follows the style, not necessarily the ideals. It's not something I'll give my life to defend or anything, so just let me be. I just hope that knowing my stance on BM will not hamper the extent of how seriously my contributions to discussions are taken on your part.

As the 'gay nazi' thing, I was stereotyping that it seems like many BMers have a Nazi mentality(or National Socialist, whatever). And the Euronymous thing, well, Euronymous is to BM fans as MJK is to Tool fans.

The bottom line is:

Person 1: "I listen to music as art. This means that I consider all aspects of an album, right down to the cover art. Through the music I feel and experience the ideas that the creator is expressing. If the idea is directly contradicting my worldview, I obviously don't enjoy it, because it means nothing to me."

Person 2: "I listen to music as entertainment. I listen to the music that sounds best to my ears. I don't analyse it, or take it seriously, although it may still be very important to me. I can ignore the ideologies which directly contradict my worldview, because the music still sounds great and that's all I look for in music."

Take your pick and shut up.

You can't expect everyone to fall into either definition. To me, some music is entertainment, and some music is art. Usually, my favorite is art, and my casual listening is entertainment, with exceptions.

Black Metal falls under casual listening. But I am a fan. I do know my stuff.

 

[Dr Psyklonic]

any religion which revolves around the worship of a deified being is the result of a mental delusion in which the victim craves displacement from whatever time of strife or anticipation of strife that they happen to be in.

 

[clangorous]

Thanks for the information, clangorous.

You Are Welcome !!!, if u need more info , u can ask me anytime
if i know the info i will surely communicate it to u :Spin:

 

[anonymousnick2001]

any religion which revolves around the worship of a deified being is the result of a mental delusion in which the victim craves displacement from whatever time of strife or anticipation of strife that they happen to be in.

You, a sex-starved nerd that revolves around the ideal that worshipping deities is in any way primitive or outdated or stupid, are the result of two mentally deluded creatures on a buzz from a frighteningly large intake of illegal narcotics who also decided to insert tab A into slot B a few times and plop you onto a crackhouse floor 9 months later.

I'm sorry if that was harsh, but the discussion has progressed to a sensible level of understanding on both sides. Retarded comments are no longer admitted.