Avant-Garde Metal

[SerenityNow!]

you know what i think? the next time you start throwing around jazz to arbitrary metal bands, take a step back and hold it. because its obvious all of you are full of shit and i dont want two of my favourite styles of music (jazz and metal/rock) subjected to this shit, because there are quality, factual jazz-rock or jazz-metal whatever bands out there, and atheist is not one of them. i dont care if you dont like theory, i dont give a fuck, but when you are TALKING ABOUT JAZZ, YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT JAZZ. just like anything, dont throw around terms you dont understand. if you do, dont expect people not to bust your chops for being a dumbass

that being said, department of apocalyptic affairs is probably my favourite avant garde album so far

WHAT IN THE FUCK IS WITH YOU, KID???????????

You're still doing it. YOU'RE STILL FUCKING DOING IT!!!! Are you fucking serious? you must be trying really hard to be this forum's most notorious troll. You ARE trying, right? C'mon, you gotta be. YOU ABSOLUTELY GOTTA BE!!

I'll ask again...Simply put, why do you come here??

 

[Slayer101]

you know what i think? the next time you start throwing around jazz to arbitrary metal bands, take a step back and hold it. because its obvious all of you are full of shit and i dont want two of my favourite styles of music (jazz and metal/rock) subjected to this shit, because there are quality, factual jazz-rock or jazz-metal whatever bands out there, and atheist is not one of them. i dont care if you dont like theory, i dont give a fuck, but when you are TALKING ABOUT JAZZ, YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT JAZZ. just like anything, dont throw around terms you dont understand. if you do, dont expect people not to bust your chops for being a dumbass

that being said, department of apocalyptic affairs is probably my favourite avant garde album so far

URE TU SMARTZ FOR MA TINY BRAINZ

 

[i aint play this]

They are right, Vuashke, people don't have to know about theory to recognize a certain genre by ear. You come across as a fucking moron when you insist with that shit. Just stop for a fucking minute and think.

 

[RoadKing]

"Originally Posted by Vuashke
you know what i think? the next time you start throwing around jazz to arbitrary metal bands, take a step back and hold it. because its obvious all of you are full of shit and i dont want two of my favourite styles of music (jazz and metal/rock) subjected to this shit, because there are quality, factual jazz-rock or jazz-metal whatever bands out there, and atheist is not one of them. i dont care if you dont like theory, i dont give a fuck, but when you are TALKING ABOUT JAZZ, YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT JAZZ. just like anything, dont throw around terms you dont understand. if you do, dont expect people not to bust your chops for being a dumbass

that being said, department of apocalyptic affairs is probably my favourite avant garde album so far."

WHAT IN THE FUCK IS WITH YOU, KID???????????

You're still doing it. YOU'RE STILL FUCKING DOING IT!!!! Are you fucking serious? you must be trying really hard to be this forum's most notorious troll. You ARE trying, right? C'mon, you gotta be. YOU ABSOLUTELY GOTTA BE!!

I'll ask again...Simply put, why do you come here??

I see time hasn't left ol' vuashke any less of a pretentious, sanctimonious little douche, why am I not surprised?! I especially loved the "...but when you are TALKING ABOUT JAZZ, YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT JAZZ" part, hilarious! Very Tom Cruise of you, vuash!

 

[i aint play this]

ROFL just read the Cliff Burton thread and Mikael's response to Vuashke was scarily similar to mine: ''You come across as a complete moron''. lololol pwned.

 

[Vuashke]

well its lucky for me i only like mikaels music and i dont a rats ass about what he thinks of me. yeah, pwned hard buddy

looks like everyone has only so far cemented my claim of them not knowing anything, but still talking shit. keep it up hombres

 

[i aint play this]

well its lucky for me i only like mikaels music and i dont a rats ass about what he thinks of me. yeah, pwned hard buddy

lol that's the obvious excuse, what more could you say to save the embarassment?

Good job

 

[Narek]

then dont fucking talk about shit that you have no knowledge about, or AT THE VERY LEAST tell me where in the atheist song there is such clear jazzy moments. if you dont know anything about theory then you wont know anything about jazz because jazz = theory. thats why its hard/long to learn and why it gets boring alot

Honestly, I don't want to get into a whole debate with you, this forum doesn't need another one. So don't start one.

Having studied Jazz piano for a couple of years and learning to think outside a simple C Major scale or G Dorian or F Be-Bop was the hardest part, that bold statement is partially false. Because jazz was based on the R&B, Soul,and Blues movement in the New Orleans area, on the COMPLETE notion of improvisation, which in terms means playing beyond the boundaries of what we know as Western Music Theory (i.e. no quarter tones, microtones etc, like in Middle Eastern music.); of course it ALL depended upon the player, whether they had a knowledge of music theory or not, some of the best jazz piano players I have heard did not know a lick of theory and still can improvise in amazing preciseness for what seemed like hours.

 

[Vuashke]

and whats your take on this then?

 

[Narek]

From what I heard they are clearly influenced by jazz, not necessarily Herbie Hancock, but some of the more contemporary jazz artists, avant-garde metal is very influenced by the more improvisational side of jazz, rather than the smooth stuff. But isn't everything we hear an interpretation of some sort. A guitar lead in a song for one person might be heard as a wonderful melodic yet technical masterpiece but for another sound like a bunch of scales.

So in the end, who am I to say what jazz, metal or anything is? I'm just another musician.

 

[Vuashke]

From what I heard they are clearly influenced by jazz, not necessarily Herbie Hancock, but some of the more contemporary jazz artists, avant-garde metal is very influenced by the more improvisational side of jazz, rather than the smooth stuff. But isn't everything we hear an interpretation of some sort. A guitar lead in a song for one person might be heard as a wonderful melodic yet technical masterpiece but for another sound like a bunch of scales.

So in the end, who am I to say what jazz, metal or anything is? I'm just another musician.

plenty of people are influenced, but is it present in thier music? i dont think so. if you do, why? what is present? where abouts?

herbie hancocks new stuff is smooth nonsense anywy

 

[Ozzloaf]

Maybe you can't hear the jazz influence because you've only heard power tab versions of Atheist songs?

 

[Narek]

plenty of people are influenced, but is it present in thier music? i dont think so. if you do, why? what is present? where abouts?

herbie hancocks new stuff is smooth nonsense anywy

The song Air by Atheist has some jazz influence that's apparent, at least for me. Again it's not the classic jazz that we all know and love but it's a variation of that. I have come to learn that everything changes and the rock my dad used to listen to in the 60's is a lot different than what we consider rock right now.

Tell MOST classic pianists or musicians that you listen to rock and roll, any sub-genre and they'll laugh at you, giving you no credibility what so ever. That I think is just pig-headed ness, or like a horse with blinders on, only being able to see the path ahead. Not referring to you necessarily but it seems you think jazz is a strict theoretical thing, but it's a drastically changing beast that we all have to deal with, with everything, not only jazz. Gas prices anyone?

I personally enjoy some of Chopin's Nocturnes as much as enjoy some of Opeth's stuff from Deliverance.

 

[ThePoisoning]

plenty of people are influenced, but is it present in thier music? i dont think so.

Please review elementary vocabulary and be reminded of what influence means.

 

[Vuashke]

i know all about pretentious jazzer fuckwits, and i know that if you mention any semblance of metal to them they laugh. they are just idiots, plain and simple. please, why is jazzy about that song? which part? anything pre elements?

 

[Vuashke]

Please review elementary vocabulary and be reminded of what influence means.

kelly shaefer may be influenced by rap, but is it included in atheist's works? no, probably not. it might be included in a side project. musicians, not bands, are influenced by certain artists

 

[Narek]

I find the intro of the tritonic chords and dissonance very reminiscent of the more avant-garde jazz, think Theolonius Monk, "There aren't any wrong notes, just jazzy improvisations." And the drum groove is very much like some drum grooves I hear all over jazz records, I'm not a drummer so I've no idea what that type of groove is called.

It is definitely FAR from jazz, but has some jazz elements.

 

[ThePoisoning]

kelly shaefer may be influenced by rap, but is it included in atheist's works? no, probably not. it might be included in a side project. musicians, not bands, are influenced by certain artists

He is not "influenced" by rap if it is not present in his music. He simply likes rap. Big difference.

 

[Vuashke]

tritone has been the common interval for dissonance long before jazz was born

and atheist might not be his only present music. he might compose stuff on his own that he doesnt release his rap-related material. instead of thinking musicians you are thinking atheist

 

[ThePoisoning]

Then talking about influence, in that sense, is completely irrelevant because it has nothing to do with his contributions to Atheist.