Batman: The Dark Knight Rises and other misc. Nolan's Batman Thread

[AeonicSlumber]

I'm sure that people are talking about TDKR on the "Superhero Movies" thread, but honestly, TDKR deserves its own thread. What are your thoughts on it - as well as Nolan's Batman universe in general.


Please let's talk about the movie only guys.


Also it goes without saying that there will be spoilers.

 

[TychoCelchu]

I was satisfied. I tried to temper my expectations going into it. All I needed was for it to wrap up things in a way that wasn't totally off the wall, and it did that. I didn't have any problems with Joseph Gordon Levitt (I've seen some criticism of his performance in this, but IMO it has more to do with him playing a somewhat limited character than it did with his acting ability). Bane was well done. I didn't think it was rushed (if anything, it could've been shorter) and after the main plot ended, I was happy with the way it wrapped up the trilogy.

I didn't need this to "top" anything (TDK, obviously speaking) and it did not. It was less intense and less, impactful, I guess, than TDK, but it did what it needed to do. I'd be equally happy if the whole thing is laid to rest at this point, or if JG-L gets his own film later on.

 

[ApolloFC]

Finally saw it today with a lady friend. I'm really enjoyed it along with the other ones. I can see why people may have problems with Bane's voice but when you realize who it is it makes a lot of sense. I hope theres a sequel of some sorts.. with or without Nolan to at least get Robin (the cop yes?) in now.. he and catwoman did a good job.

 

[mattbrood]

As a movie, extremely well done.

As a Batman movie?? Oi Vey, where do I begin?

First, the positives. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman stole every scene she was in. Loved her take on the character.
JGL as "John Blake" was terrific, great performance except for the eye roll inducing 'reveal of his "full name" at the end of the movie.
As usual Gary Oldman's Gordon was perfect. No complaints there at all.
The cameo by Raa's Al Ghul was a nice surprise, but I wish he had actually been resurrected from the Lazurus Pit (like in the comics) instead of being a Bruce Wayne Hallucination.
Morgan Freeman as Lucias was good as always, but he really didn't have much to do.

Now my criticisms: *SPOILER ALERT*!!!!!!!!

First and foremost: Bruce Wayne has been "retired' for eight years?? BULLSHIT! uke:Batman is obsessed with fighting crime because of the death of his parents, so the explanation of the 'Harvey Dent Act" ending organized crime in Gotham wouldn't matter because there would still be street crime for Batman to fight. Even worse, he retired because his girlfriend was killed by the Joker?? Again..BULLSHIT! uke:
Alfred abandoning Bruce Wayne "for his own good"? So ridiculous. Alfred would never leave Bruce Wayne, he is loyal to the end. The way they explain it in the movie makes no sense. Where did Alfred go? Did he just disappear until the end of the movie?
Bane: Overall, I liked Tom Hardy's portrayal of Bane even though changing the characters nationality ( he's supposed o be of South American descent). I understand why they left out the 'Vemom' serum that makes the comic book Bane super strong, it doesn't fit in Nolan's reality based Batverse. The voice of Bane was annoying most of the time, sounding like a bad Sean Connery impression. And the fact that "the big reveal" that he was just a flunkie was pretty lame.
Speaking of which, the character of Miranda Tate turning out to be Talia Al Ghul was the worst kept secret for months. Then to take a great character like Talia and just kill her off? Lame!

The fight scenes between Bane and Batman were were pretty craptacular. I was waiting for an epic battle but every punch seemed totally weak, as did the 'breaking of the Bat" moment. uke:

The ending was a convoluted mess that I won't even try to dissect. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Batman basically telling Gordon his real identity was so stupid. Gordon never knows who the Batman really is, that's the beauty of their friendship. That they are the best of friends without Gordon ever knowing (or caring) who Batman really is. uke:uke:uke:

After the great Batman Begins, and the amazing Dark Knight, I was totally let down with TDKR. It's like Nolan just didn't give a crap and I wasted 3 hours of my life that I'll never get back.

Anyway, just one Batman fanboy's nerdy opinion

 

[monoxide_child]

Now my criticisms
First and foremost: Bruce Wayne has been "retired' for eight years?? BULLSHIT! uke:Batman is obsessed with fighting crime because of the death of his parents, so the explanation of the 'Harvey Dent Act" ending organized crime in Gotham wouldn't matter because there would still be street crime for Batman to fight. Even worse, he retired because his girlfriend was killed by the Joker?? Again..BULLSHIT! uke:
Alfred abandoning Bruce Wayne "for his own good"? So ridiculous. Alfred would never leave Bruce Wayne, he is loyal to the end. The way they explain it in the movie makes no sense. Where did Alfred go? Did he just disappear until the end of the movie?
Bane: Overall, I liked Tom Hardy's portrayal of Bane even though changing the characters nationality ( he's supposed o be of South American descent). I understand why they left out the 'Vemom' serum that makes the comic book Bane super strong, it doesn't fit in Nolan's reality based Batverse. The voice of Bane was annoying most of the time, sounding like a bad Sean Connery impression. And the fact that "the big reveal" that he was just a flunkie was pretty lame.
Speaking of which, the character of Miranda Tate turning out to be Talia Al Ghul was the worst kept secret for months. Then to take a great character like Talia and just kill her off? Lame!

The fight scenes between Bane and Batman were were pretty craptacular. I was waiting for an epic battle but every punch seemed totally weak, as did the 'breaking of the Bat" moment. uke:

The ending was a convoluted mess that I won't even try to dissect. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Batman basically telling Gordon his real identity was so stupid. Gordon never knows who the Batman really is, that's the beauty of their friendship. That they are the best of friends without Gordon ever knowing (or caring) who Batman really is. uke:uke:uke:

After the great Batman Begins, and the amazing Dark Knight, I was totally let down with TDKR. It's like Nolan just didn't give a crap and I wasted 3 hours of my life that I'll never get back.

Anyway, just one Batman fanboy's nerdy opinion

+1
also the entire last 15 min totally completely looked like nothing but a giant set up for a sequel, .... except that we've already been told there won't be one...what the fucking hell, man?!?!?
also see my complaints i put in the superhero movie thread

 

[AeonicSlumber]

F I can see why people may have problems with Bane's voice but when you realize who it is it makes a lot of sense.

Apparently a psychopath isn't allowed to sound or talk like a psychopath for some people.

First and foremost: Bruce Wayne has been "retired' for eight years?? BULLSHIT! uke:Batman is obsessed with fighting crime because of the death of his parents, so the explanation of the 'Harvey Dent Act" ending organized crime in Gotham wouldn't matter because there would still be street crime for Batman to fight. Even worse, he retired because his girlfriend was killed by the Joker?? Again..BULLSHIT! uke:
Alfred abandoning Bruce Wayne "for his own good"? So ridiculous. Alfred would never leave Bruce Wayne, he is loyal to the end. The way they explain it in the movie makes no sense. Where did Alfred go? Did he just disappear until the end of the movie?
Bane: Overall, I liked Tom Hardy's portrayal of Bane even though changing the characters nationality ( he's supposed o be of South American descent). I understand why they left out the 'Vemom' serum that makes the comic book Bane super strong, it doesn't fit in Nolan's reality based Batverse. The voice of Bane was annoying most of the time, sounding like a bad Sean Connery impression. And the fact that "the big reveal" that he was just a flunkie was pretty lame.
Speaking of which, the character of Miranda Tate turning out to be Talia Al Ghul was the worst kept secret for months. Then to take a great character like Talia and just kill her off? Lame!

The fight scenes between Bane and Batman were were pretty craptacular. I was waiting for an epic battle but every punch seemed totally weak, as did the 'breaking of the Bat" moment. uke:

The ending was a convoluted mess that I won't even try to dissect. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Batman basically telling Gordon his real identity was so stupid. Gordon never knows who the Batman really is, that's the beauty of their friendship. That they are the best of friends without Gordon ever knowing (or caring) who Batman really is. uke:uke:uke:

After the great Batman Begins, and the amazing Dark Knight, I was totally let down with TDKR. It's like Nolan just didn't give a crap and I wasted 3 hours of my life that I'll never get back.

Anyway, just one Batman fanboy's nerdy opinion

Fair enough on some of these criticisms, but the majority of your criticisms are kind of ridiculous. You don't seem to understand the concept of "canon," and that the canon of Nolan's universe is and has always been separate from the canon on the comics.

I get it that that you had expectations that weren't met, but imo that's ridiculous. Nowhere has it been established that Nolan's universe is supposed to be following any particular comic - in fact it has been established that his films are set in his own world. So sorry you had problems with the characters, but saying that the characters aren't acting in ways they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be acting is complete conjecture and really bad criticism. If this was your first time with the Nolan Batman films, sorry you didn't get what you were looking for - but if you've seen the other two and STILL feel that way, that's your own fault bro.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

+1
also the entire last 15 min totally completely looked like nothing but a giant set up for a sequel, .... except that we've already been told there won't be one...what the fucking hell, man?!?!?
also see my complaints i put in the superhero movie thread

Uh Nobody said there won't be a sequel. What we were told is that Nolan won't return to direct Batman again. Bale also said he probably wouldn't star as Batman again. It was left open yes, and if someone else wanted to direct another movie and continue where that universe left off, they can.

To be honest, I actually like that better than Nolan closing off his series to anyone else and then we'd have to see yet ANOTHER reboot.

 

[Diabolik]

Uh Nobody said there won't be a sequel. What we were told is that Nolan won't return to direct Batman again. Bale also said he probably wouldn't star as Batman again. It was left open yes, and if someone else wanted to direct another movie and continue where that universe left off, they can.

To be honest, I actually like that better than Nolan closing off his series to anyone else and then we'd have to see yet ANOTHER reboot.

I agree....Nolan doesnt own the Batman films so anyone Warner wants can take over and continue.

I thought the movie was fine. My only issues were ......

- the nuke at the end. Gotham will soon be filled with mutants once that radiation hits. Hello X-men....wrong universe though.

- the back break should have been framed better and shown with more ferocity.

- the cops didnt need to shave after 3 months in the sewers?

I thought the film was good and I hate the DC universe.


I would like to see the series continue without a reboot. No need for them.

 

[mattbrood]

Apparently a psychopath isn't allowed to sound or talk like a psychopath for some people.




Fair enough on some of these criticisms, but the majority of your criticisms are kind of ridiculous. You don't seem to understand the concept of "canon," and that the canon of Nolan's universe is and has always been separate from the canon on the comics.

I get it that that you had expectations that weren't met, but imo that's ridiculous. Nowhere has it been established that Nolan's universe is supposed to be following any particular comic - in fact it has been established that his films are set in his own world. So sorry you had problems with the characters, but saying that the characters aren't acting in ways they SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be acting is complete conjecture and really bad criticism. If this was your first time with the Nolan Batman films, sorry you didn't get what you were looking for - but if you've seen the other two and STILL feel that way, that's your own fault bro.

You totally missed my whole point. I wasn't expecting Batman The Animated series (superior to Nolan's vision btw..in my opinion) or Knightfall or The Dark Knight Returns for that matter. I absolutely LOVE the first two Nolan films, that's why I was so profoundly disappointed with TDKR, and I went into TDKR with extremely lowered expectations, because no one was going to follow Ledger's performance as The Joker. In Batman Begins,and The Dark Knight I thought the characters of Alfred, Gordon, Wayne were captured perfectly that's exactly why TDKR is so disappointing. Because the characters that were defined in the first two films, specifically Wayne and Alfred, act exactly the opposite of how their characters were portrayed in the first two films. And yeah, I'm a fan of the Batman comics and the Nolan Batverse as well. Trust me, I wanted to like, hell, I wanted to LOVE the movie, it just felt like it was forced, but I'm not asking you or anyone to agree with me. I stated my criticisms and to argue back and forth is kind of silly. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has em and they all stink! But it's all good

 

[ApolloFC]

Too lazy to quote, but yeah the fightscenes between bane and batman did look "weak", I'll admit that. I could see what they we're going for but it just didn't come off right on the screen. Also lady friend was the only one who said something how it was a long film but she was just saying that lightly (ie Return of the King was a long film).

:casual fans:

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I agree....Nolan doesnt own the Batman films so anyone Warner wants can take over and continue.

I thought the movie was fine. My only issues were ......

- the nuke at the end. Gotham will soon be filled with mutants once that radiation hits. Hello X-men....wrong universe though.

- the back break should have been framed better and shown with more ferocity.

- the cops didnt need to shave after 3 months in the sewers?

I thought the film was good and I hate the DC universe.


I would like to see the series continue without a reboot. No need for them.

The nuke => radiation thing was probably the biggest suspension of disbelief issue I had with the film. It should have been at least addressed via Wayne Enterprises using anti radiation spray - whatever - ANYTHING!.

 

[caex]

I would like to see the series continue without a reboot. No need for them.

Yeah, unfortunately, the next batman movie will probably be a reboot.

 

[monoxide_child]

You totally missed my whole point. I wasn't expecting Batman The Animated series (superior to Nolan's vision btw..in my opinion) or Knightfall or The Dark Knight Returns for that matter. I absolutely LOVE the first two Nolan films, that's why I was so profoundly disappointed with TDKR, and I went into TDKR with extremely lowered expectations, because no one was going to follow Ledger's performance as The Joker. In Batman Begins,and The Dark Knight I thought the characters of Alfred, Gordon, Wayne were captured perfectly that's exactly why TDKR is so disappointing. Because the characters that were defined in the first two films, specifically Wayne and Alfred, act exactly the opposite of how their characters were portrayed in the first two films. And yeah, I'm a fan of the Batman comics and the Nolan Batverse as well. Trust me, I wanted to like, hell, I wanted to LOVE the movie, it just felt like it was forced, but I'm not asking you or anyone to agree with me. I stated my criticisms and to argue back and forth is kind of silly. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has em and they all stink! But it's all good

amazingly, this ^^^ is EXACTLY how i feel

 

[monoxide_child]

Uh Nobody said there won't be a sequel. What we were told is that Nolan won't return to direct Batman again. Bale also said he probably wouldn't star as Batman again. It was left open yes, and if someone else wanted to direct another movie and continue where that universe left off, they can.

To be honest, I actually like that better than Nolan closing off his series to anyone else and then we'd have to see yet ANOTHER reboot.

when Batman Begins was in pre-production, the whole fucking reason it was a re-boot of the previous batman film was to put batman into a justice league movie, then Nolan said"No, my batman won't be in a justice league movie", then a few days BEFORE heath ledger died, the studio had decided that Nolan was only going to do a trilogy and immediately after Nolan's 3rd batman movie, there would immediately be a re-boot of Nolan's movies, and that this post-Nolan-batman-re-boot would be batman in a justice league universe, i don't know whether or not the Nolan-universe will get one more movie, but it's prolly going to be re-booted either way because, as far as i know, DC still wants to (eventually) put Batman into a justice league movie

 

[nomisofsiman]

Uh Nobody said there won't be a sequel. What we were told is that Nolan won't return to direct Batman again. Bale also said he probably wouldn't star as Batman again. It was left open yes, and if someone else wanted to direct another movie and continue where that universe left off, they can.

To be honest, I actually like that better than Nolan closing off his series to anyone else and then we'd have to see yet ANOTHER reboot.

I'm mostly in disagreement with this. You are correct there has been no mention of this being the last one in the series; however, I truly don't want another director to take this on mostly because the last time Batman changed directors to Schumacher it went to shit. The only director I can think of that could do this series justice is David Fincher. Fuck, I'd love to see Fincher do a Batman. Other than that though, the series is in danger if it decides to bring another director in.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Okay, so I've finally seen the movie, and I think I'm in the minority here. I thought the film was way better than The Dark Knight. Don't get me wrong, I liked The Dark Knight, but I thought it was way overrated. I feel most of the reasons people loved that film was due to Ledger's performance as The Joker. While he did a fantastic job and is the best Joker to date, the character to me was one-dimensional. Hell, most of the film to me was one-dimensional...outside of Harvey Dent's character, which while it had more depth, didn't utilize Two-Face in the way I wanted it to.

Anyways, before I get off track...this was a much better film overall. It had a lot more depth. There was a lot more character development, not just in terms of Bruce Wayne/Batman but also Catwoman, Bane, Blake, Gordon, etc. My favorite film of the series still remains as Batman Begins as it had the most depth; however, I love it that this film brought that back.

Nolan is a brilliant director and I love it (while most fans hate it) that he created his own universe. He didn't feel that he had to play up to the comic book fans. He did what he thought made the most sense. While yes, the characters had similarities to previous incarnations, he didn't feel stuck in representing them perfectly. I love this version of Bane in particular, and I disagree with the idea that he still was merely a hired gun. He was a leader of the underworld and he showed intelligence, much like that of the actual Bane character. This was one thing that scared me going into the film actually as that shit Bane they made in Batman and Robin was not how Bane should be portrayed. No, he didn't have the Venom, but he still was a strong dude (that also had intelligence behind him). Speaking of his strength, I think that's the point of those fight scenes. They were to show how much superior he was to Batman, and honestly the breaking of the back worked for me. It got the message across. My only issue with the breaking of the back was that it seemed to easy to fix it.

Now as for the ending, I am sort of mixed on it. I think overall it was a great end, but the nuke thing was a little ridiculous in terms of both suspension of belief in terms of Gotham still getting radiation and the bigger issue to me, Batman surviving. I know you could say all you want, maybe he dropped it in the water or this or that but I have trouble believing he would escape and be immune to radiation. I also think the ending with Wayne and Celina Kyle being together was really corny and lazy. I would've liked there to be maybe some end where we know he's alive but them showing up and Alfred seeing them just was too cliche' to me. As for Robin's end, I liked it all except for the idea of calling him "Robin" at the end; I think it was pretty damn easy to tell who he was by that point.

As for the series continuing, I've sort of spoke how I am worried for someone carrying the torch mostly due to the atmosphere and style being changed. Basically, what I don't want is this to turn into campy Batman. However, if a great film director such as David Fincher does it, I probably won't have an issue with it. What I think would be cool actually is if they were to do a film based on Robin with maybe the idea that by the end of it, Batman returns. I think it would be a cool and interesting way to develop that character. I just don't want the series turned to hell and I also don't want a reboot. I think there's no point to do a reboot actually again (or at least one with a new background story) mostly because I don't think there will ever be a Batman film to do a better background execution than Batman Begins did.

 

[monoxide_child]

i gotta say this
The Nolanites are getting as annoying as hell
i can't really say that Jack Nicholson's Joker was a whole hell of a lot better than Ledger's Joker, but i can't really jump on the bandwagon of saying Ledger's Joker was awesome just because he died before the release date of the film, if Ledger hadn't died, Ledger's movie would have only made about the same amount of money at the box office as "batman begins"

i didn't like the dark knight because of how they did two-face, it would have been a much better movie if they had shown Joker and all the mobsters thinking dent to be dead, with the audience seeing dent alive in a coma, and then having Dent awaken from the coma as the very last scene (or possibly a post-credits scene) where "two-face" is the main villain of the next movie, instead of doing the whole scene of Joker talking to Dent in the hospital

The Dark Knight Rises was a total piece of crap, it was crappy to the point that i'm getting annoyed with how all those people that didn't even have any intention of ever seeing a batman movie till heath ledger died are going on and on about how freaking awesome TDKR is

anne hathaway's catwoman can't hold a candle to pfeiffer's catwoman, and i'm sick and tired of the crazy people trying to convince me that hathaway is sexy, to me hathaway was so un-sexy that her un-sexi-ness was distracting and ruined the movie

and why the fucking hell did bane's voice sound like sean connery?!?!?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

You totally missed my whole point. I wasn't expecting Batman The Animated series (superior to Nolan's vision btw..in my opinion)

I shall forever agree with you, there.

 

[Braxil]

Things I liked:
Bane - I thought the part was well-acted and there was an interesting dichotomy between his brutal appearance and his calm, intelligent, calculating demeanor.

Batman - Whether or not Batman would have really retired aside, I thought the issues the character wrestled with at the beginning of the movie were thought-provoking and were conceivably real concerns a superhero would have. This is an issue that I would like to see explored more in this genre.

Things I didn't like:
The dialogue - The script felt like it was written by three different people, one who was interested in exposition and well thought-out dialogue, and two other individuals who got drunk and wrote 2 hours worth of painful one-liners while high-fiving each other. Nobody talks like that, nobody.

The use of music - Playing ominous theme music during dialogue has its place and has worked well earlier in the franchise but it was taken to an almost ridiculous level here. The chugging "something really cool is about to happen" music would just not let up during the first half of the movie and it got to a point where it stopped creating suspense and I just had to start ignoring it to pay attention to what was going on.
Inconsistencies - For a franchise (Nolan's Batman) that has been obsessed with explaining everything technologically, things really seemed to break down here. They felt it was necessary to explain how an aging Batman still had physical strength with the augments on his joints but thought having his spine broken in half and then fixed by a dusty rope and a montage would be okay?

The Ending - If you're going to make the entire film about the threat of a nuclear bomb going off, don't end the movie with a shot of kids staring *directly at a nuclear explosion* 6 miles away cheering about how everything is going to be okay. In reality their skin would be caking off in a couple hours and the entire area would be uninhabitable for decades.

Overall, I was pretty unhappy with this movie. A lot of people will cry out and say that Ledger's performance carried the previous film and just as many will say the only reason his performance got so much attention was because he died, but I think the real reason The Joker worked so well was that he was the perfect foil to Batman. He put Batman in situations where his sense of right and wrong failed him and he was left not knowing what to do; that's what made The Dark Knight great. And while Bane was a strong villain in the sense that he really hammered home the point that Batman's time was done (because of his crushing physical superiority), he never gave Batman the sleepless nights so to speak that the Joker did, and that's why I felt this film didn't live up to its predecessor.

 

[nomisofsiman]

i gotta say this
The Nolanites are getting as annoying as hell
i can't really say that Jack Nicholson's Joker was a whole hell of a lot better than Ledger's Joker, but i can't really jump on the bandwagon of saying Ledger's Joker was awesome just because he died before the release date of the film, if Ledger hadn't died, Ledger's movie would have only made about the same amount of money at the box office as "batman begins"

anne hathaway's catwoman can't hold a candle to pfeiffer's catwoman, and i'm sick and tired of the crazy people trying to convince me that hathaway is sexy, to me hathaway was so un-sexy that her un-sexi-ness was distracting and ruined the movie

and why the fucking hell did bane's voice sound like sean connery?!?!?

I do think Ledger's was better, but I think a lot of it is due to Ledger the person being way different than the Joker. He never took on a role near that before, whereas I don't think Jack reached all that much for the part. Regardless though, I do agree that a big portion of why it made so much money was due to the death; however, I wouldn't say it would've only made as much as Batman Begins. In terms of Batman advesaries, Joker is an A-level villain that people love to hate. Ra's Al-Gul (or however you spell it) wasn't and Bane is somewhere in between. It would've done a lot better regardless, just not record breaking like it did.

I liked Hathaway in the film, but I do agree that Pfeiffer's version is WAY better.

As for Bane's voice, I can understand it being annoying. It's definitely an acquired taste, but due to how the character is, I think regardless of what direction they took with the voice, everyone wasn't going to be happy with it. Do I think they could have done a better job with it? Yes. However, I think they could've done a lot worse too.