Batman: The Dark Knight Rises and other misc. Nolan's Batman Thread

[AeonicSlumber]

it totally failed
it was like he didn't even feel the need to try any more
it was a crappy movie, if Nolan had actually been trying to make an awesome movie, instead of just a sequel to an awesome movie, Nolan could have made a batman movie that would have made as much at the box office as the avengers, but he didn't

The Avengers outgrossed Batman because Batman wasn't shown in 3D and 3D tickets cost double what "2D" tickets cost, so the rate of gross is much higher. TDKR broke "2D" box office records, which in it of its own right is impressive, but the fact that it broke box office records after one of the worst mass shootings in over 10 years is extremely impressive. So from a sales standpoint, it most certainly didn't "fail." In fact, box-office gross earnings for TDKR are double the actual budget of the film, so that's a huge success by any standard.

Everything else in this comment is subjective. I thought the movie was on par with the other two and was generally awesome.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Come on, that was classic, in an internet meme that nobody remembers kind of way.

Have you ever seen the My Way Entertainment "Juggernaut Bitch" video? That one puts me in tears each time. It sucks that the filmakers of X3 refuse to admit they basically intentionally stole the "I'm the Juggernaut bitch" quote from that My Way video since it was hugely popular on the internet at the time.

 

[mattbrood]

I think the most shocking thing about this entire thread, is the lack of understanding from COMIC BOOK READERS in terms of how canon/alternate universes/etc work. If you came into this third movie and were upset due to Nolan's treatment of the film being completely different to how Batman is portrayed in the comics, that sucks - sorry. If you've seen the first two and STILL expected fidelity the source material, there's something very very wrong with you.

How a character should or shouldn't act, is CONJECTURE. It's NOLAN's screenplay, not DC's, not Tim Burton's. Nolan's.



I wouldn't call the animated series superior to Nolan's, but that's just me. The universes are far too different from one another for a comparison - but I grew up with the animated series and love that one for sure.

I'm not sure how you could love the first two and not love this. They were set in completely different universes much like TDKR. You say that I "missed" your point, but I didn't. You use the phrase "captured perfectly" when describing Alfred, Gordon, and Wayne (assuming you mean Bruce right?), but that's the thing - they're NOT "captured" from anything. They're original characters that are based off the comics in the general sense, but not in the narrative. When I saw the preview for Batman Begins back in around 2005 or so, and they showed Bruce Wayne doing ninjutsu training (in no less, what was I believe a non-Japanese pacific island nation), I thought it was the dumbest fucking thing I'd ever seen. It has nothing, NOTHING, I repeat... NOTHING to do with the comics or the animated series. And if you wanted to get conjectural, the idea of Bruce doing ninjutsu training is antithetical to Batman's character, because Ninjas were honorless, cold-blooded killers.

And of course, this is all spirited. Opinions are indeed like assholes. I guess I just don't get where those of you who are talking about expectations not being met because of characters not maintaing fidelity to something else are coming from. Alfred and Gordon are minor characters across all 3 movies, how are you supposed to know how they'd act anyways?

What i was saying is that Nolan's vision of Alfred and Gordon (in my mind not minor characters, but most important second only to Bruce/Batman as they are his conscience and his best friend), the way the characters acted in TDKR was totally contradictory from the first two Nolan films. I think as far as story, Batman giving Gordon a clue to who he really was by mentioning how he had placed a coat on young bruce after his parents murders and and Gordon "getting it" in a few seconds was just silly. It was 30 something years ago!! But I digress!
As Duchess mentioned, the villains in the first two Nolan films were more fleshed out and had a rich back story, Bane? In the end he was just a flunkie for Talia Al Ghul, and Talia didn't even have a chance, she was killed off just as quickly as she was revealed who she really was. Nolan's problem in my mind is that he is so interested in the "big twist" at the end that he gets too caught up in it. JGL John Blake character could have been named Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, or even Jason Todd and it would have made more sense, but "John Blake" is a way to keep who he really is a secret from the audience, until the big "reveal" at the end. When it was revealed his real name was "Robin" all it did was elicit laughs and groans in the theater i watched it in. I understand that this was Nolan's "vision" and wasn't supposed to follow Batman "canon", I was okay with that with the first two films. Also as an aside, in The animated series, there are a couple of episodes that flash back to Bruce's training in japan, so that part of Batman begins fit in perfectly. I sometimes wonder how amazing the 3rd Nolan Batfilm would have been if Heath Ledger hadn't tragically passed away. The Avengers movie was exactly how comic book movies (in my view) should be made. Joss Whedon is a fanboy and also wrote comics, so he "gets it". I watched the animated Justice League movie "Doom" last night and it was amazing. Bane, was...BANE! **Spoiler alert** I was totally marking out when Bane dug up Bruce's parents to break the man. If DC/Warner could do a live action JLA movie like that, I guarantee it would do Avengers type numbers. Anyway, bring on the next Batman reboot in five years, I'm ready for it as long as the next director doesn't bring back the bat nipples suit!!

 

[nomisofsiman]

What i was saying is that Nolan's vision of Alfred and Gordon (in my mind not minor characters, but most important second only to Bruce/Batman as they are his conscience and his best friend), the way the characters acted in TDKR was totally contradictory from the first two Nolan films. I think as far as story, Batman giving Gordon a clue to who he really was by mentioning how he had placed a coat on young bruce after his parents murders and and Gordon "getting it" in a few seconds was just silly. It was 30 something years ago!! But I digress!
As Duchess mentioned, the villains in the first two Nolan films were more fleshed out and had a rich back story, Bane? In the end he was just a flunkie for Talia Al Ghul, and Talia didn't even have a chance, she was killed off just as quickly as she was revealed who she really was. Nolan's problem in my mind is that he is so interested in the "big twist" at the end that he gets too caught up in it. JGL John Blake character could have been named Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, or even Jason Todd and it would have made more sense, but "John Blake" is a way to keep who he really is a secret from the audience, until the big "reveal" at the end. When it was revealed his real name was "Robin" all it did was elicit laughs and groans in the theater i watched it in. I understand that this was Nolan's "vision" and wasn't supposed to follow Batman "canon", I was okay with that with the first two films. Also as an aside, in The animated series, there are a couple of episodes that flash back to Bruce's training in japan, so that part of Batman begins fit in perfectly. I sometimes wonder how amazing the 3rd Nolan Batfilm would have been if Heath Ledger hadn't tragically passed away. The Avengers movie was exactly how comic book movies (in my view) should be made. Joss Whedon is a fanboy and also wrote comics, so he "gets it". I watched the animated Justice League movie "Doom" last night and it was amazing. Bane, was...BANE! **Spoiler alert** I was totally marking out when Bane dug up Bruce's parents to break the man. If DC/Warner could do a live action JLA movie like that, I guarantee it would do Avengers type numbers. Anyway, bring on the next Batman reboot in five years, I'm ready for it as long as the next director doesn't bring back the bat nipples suit!!

Okay, two issues with what you say here. You say Bane didn't have a backstory but they did reveal more about him as the movie went on. While maybe at the end of the day, he wasn't fully in charge of the operation, he definitely was more of a flunky. He was well done imo. And as far as the other villains being fleshed out, that is hardly the truth. Joker was not fleshed out...AT ALL!!! It was a good performance, but the Joker didn't have much depth to him. Also, I have to keep laughing (not singling you out but many I have talked to) who say that had Ledger not died what this last one would've been like. Let's be honest here, the way superhero movies go and the way Nolan has done them, Joker wouldn't have been involved.

 

[mattbrood]

Okay, two issues with what you say here. You say Bane didn't have a backstory but they did reveal more about him as the movie went on. While maybe at the end of the day, he wasn't fully in charge of the operation, he definitely was more of a flunky. He was well done imo. And as far as the other villains being fleshed out, that is hardly the truth. Joker was not fleshed out...AT ALL!!! It was a good performance, but the Joker didn't have much depth to him. Also, I have to keep laughing (not singling you out but many I have talked to) who say that had Ledger not died what this last one would've been like. Let's be honest here, the way superhero movies go and the way Nolan has done them, Joker wouldn't have been involved.

Okay, I totally disagree that Bane's character was fleshed out, the character in the comics is much more interesting to me. In Nolan's movies Raas Al Ghul was fleshed out, Harvey Dent was fleshed out as well, hell even Scarecrow was more interesting than Bane. He was just following Talia's orders, hence, Flunkie. it just seemed weak. As for Ledger's Joker, just because they didn't discuss his origin doesn't mean the character wasn't defined.Also, i totally disagree with you again, if Ledger had lived he would have absolutely been a part of the 3rd movie in the trilogy because he is Batman's most iconic foe (Raas is his greatest foe) and seeing where it would lead in a third film would have been amazing. The main reason for the 8 year gap is because if they took up where the last movie left off, everyone would be asking "what happened to the Joker", so nolan just used the 8 year gap to distance people from TDK. As for villains ,Nolan didn't want any of the more "comic book" characters like Riddler or Penguin, so Bane really was the only choice left. While I understand why he made the changes to Bane and left out the venom, luchador mask, and everything because he wanted a Bane that was more realistic, i just didn't like it. But again, just my opinion, i can't separate myself from being a Batman fan since I was a kid. So when I see a new version of The Bat, I'm always going to compare it to the versions I love. i liked some versions of Batman (the Adam west campy version because i was a kid when i first saw it, Burton's take, the original 90's animated series) and hated others (all the Shumacher films, "The Batman" WB animated series with the Joker looking like a green haired ape), but again, it's just how I look at it as a fan. i respect everyones right to disagree with me

and not for nothing, but THIS FIGHT between Bane and Batman from the animated series totally blows away the fight in TDKR

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Okay, I totally disagree that Bane's character was fleshed out, the character in the comics is much more interesting to me. In Nolan's movies Raas Al Ghul was fleshed out, Harvey Dent was fleshed out as well, hell even Scarecrow was more interesting than Bane. He was just following Talia's orders, hence, Flunkie. it just seemed weak.

It's funny, my husband said the EXACT same thing. I think his words were, "Once again, Bane wasn't in charge. That's two movies where I got to see him take orders from someone else without having any self motivation."

I agree with him in that sense, and man do I love that BTAS clip..! But I'm also in loooooove with the recent Justice League: Doom depiction of Bane/Batman. It was so well done!



(Also.. I hated "The Batman", too. Their version of Joker absolutely annoyed me.)

 

[mattbrood]

It's funny, my husband said the EXACT same thing. I think his words were, "Once again, Bane wasn't in charge. That's two movies where I got to see him take orders from someone else without having any self motivation."

I agree with him in that sense, and man do I love that BTAS clip..! But I'm also in loooooove with the recent Justice League: Doom depiction of Bane/Batman. It was so well done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohfKzYFcQv8

(Also.. I hated "The Batman", too. Their version of Joker absolutely annoyed me.)

I just watched DOOM on Friday night and I agree, Bane vs Batman battle was amazing with Bane digging up Wayne's parents. Incredible drama that none of the Batfilms have reached on any level.
And yeah, The Batman cartoon was just poorly thought out. I mean what the hell was the Joker supposed to be? Half orangutang?? It did improve a couple of seasons in, when they brought in the show runners from....Batman the Animated Series!!! (see how it always comes back to that show? Lol)

The bottom line is, and Joss Whedon proved it with The Avengers, these directors need to stop trying to change so much, just use these great characters, have a great villain, and a great story, that's it, simple!

 

[OrbWeaver]

Matt, Nina, I think this is what you both mean to say:
http://things90skidsrealize.com/2010/09/13/19/

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Matt, Nina, I think this is what you both mean to say:
http://things90skidsrealize.com/2010/09/13/19/

Haha! Cartoon Batman is best Batman! XD

 

[monoxide_child]

TDKR broke "2D" box office records, which in it of its own right is impressive, but the fact that it broke box office records after one of the worst mass shootings in over 10 years is extremely impressive.

first
movie ticket prices go up every single fucking year, so it only broke records in terms of dollars made, not in terms of how many people showed up to see the movie

second
i know i'll get flamed for this, but i seriously believe that the mass-shooting did not actually decrease the number of people that saw the movie, at all

 

[mattbrood]

Matt, Nina, I think this is what you both mean to say:
http://things90skidsrealize.com/2010/09/13/19/

To quote Daniel Bryan: YES!YES!!YES!!

 

[OrbWeaver]

To quote Daniel Bryan: YES!YES!!YES!!

No, now he changed his catch phrase to "NO! NO! NO!" because AJ hijacked the "YES!" catchphrase.

 

[mattbrood]

No, now he changed his catch phrase to "NO! NO! NO!" because AJ hijacked the "YES!" catchphrase.

 

[monoxide_child]

What i was saying is that Nolan's vision of Alfred and Gordon (in my mind not minor characters, but most important second only to Bruce/Batman as they are his conscience and his best friend), the way the characters acted in TDKR was totally contradictory from the first two Nolan films. I think as far as story, Batman giving Gordon a clue to who he really was by mentioning how he had placed a coat on young bruce after his parents murders and and Gordon "getting it" in a few seconds was just silly. It was 30 something years ago!! But I digress!
As Duchess mentioned, the villains in the first two Nolan films were more fleshed out and had a rich back story, Bane? In the end he was just a flunkie for Talia Al Ghul, and Talia didn't even have a chance, she was killed off just as quickly as she was revealed who she really was. Nolan's problem in my mind is that he is so interested in the "big twist" at the end that he gets too caught up in it. JGL John Blake character could have been named Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, or even Jason Todd and it would have made more sense, but "John Blake" is a way to keep who he really is a secret from the audience, until the big "reveal" at the end. When it was revealed his real name was "Robin" all it did was elicit laughs and groans in the theater i watched it in. I understand that this was Nolan's "vision" and wasn't supposed to follow Batman "canon", I was okay with that with the first two films. Also as an aside, in The animated series, there are a couple of episodes that flash back to Bruce's training in japan, so that part of Batman begins fit in perfectly. I sometimes wonder how amazing the 3rd Nolan Batfilm would have been if Heath Ledger hadn't tragically passed away. The Avengers movie was exactly how comic book movies (in my view) should be made. Joss Whedon is a fanboy and also wrote comics, so he "gets it". I watched the animated Justice League movie "Doom" last night and it was amazing. Bane, was...BANE! **Spoiler alert** I was totally marking out when Bane dug up Bruce's parents to break the man. If DC/Warner could do a live action JLA movie like that, I guarantee it would do Avengers type numbers. Anyway, bring on the next Batman reboot in five years, I'm ready for it as long as the next director doesn't bring back the bat nipples suit!!

+1

Okay, two issues with what you say here. You say Bane didn't have a backstory but they did reveal more about him as the movie went on. While maybe at the end of the day, he wasn't fully in charge of the operation, he definitely was more of a flunky. He was well done imo. And as far as the other villains being fleshed out, that is hardly the truth. Joker was not fleshed out...AT ALL!!! It was a good performance, but the Joker didn't have much depth to him. Also, I have to keep laughing (not singling you out but many I have talked to) who say that had Ledger not died what this last one would've been like. Let's be honest here, the way superhero movies go and the way Nolan has done them, Joker wouldn't have been involved.

bane not being in charge was nothing more than a weird nolan-twist, and done badly, bane even interacting with talia pissed me off, let alone the whole working for her thing, Heath Ledger's Joker Sucked, there i said it, and if heath ledger had not died, the dark knight would have only made the same amount as batman begins, possibly even less

Okay, I totally disagree that Bane's character was fleshed out, the character in the comics is much more interesting to me. In Nolan's movies Raas Al Ghul was fleshed out, Harvey Dent was fleshed out as well, hell even Scarecrow was more interesting than Bane. He was just following Talia's orders, hence, Flunkie. it just seemed weak. As for Ledger's Joker, just because they didn't discuss his origin doesn't mean the character wasn't defined.Also, i totally disagree with you again, if Ledger had lived he would have absolutely been a part of the 3rd movie in the trilogy because he is Batman's most iconic foe (Raas is his greatest foe) and seeing where it would lead in a third film would have been amazing. The main reason for the 8 year gap is because if they took up where the last movie left off, everyone would be asking "what happened to the Joker", so nolan just used the 8 year gap to distance people from TDK. As for villains ,Nolan didn't want any of the more "comic book" characters like Riddler or Penguin, so Bane really was the only choice left. While I understand why he made the changes to Bane and left out the venom, luchador mask, and everything because he wanted a Bane that was more realistic, i just didn't like it. But again, just my opinion, i can't separate myself from being a Batman fan since I was a kid. So when I see a new version of The Bat, I'm always going to compare it to the versions I love. i liked some versions of Batman (the Adam west campy version because i was a kid when i first saw it, Burton's take, the original 90's animated series) and hated others (all the Shumacher films, "The Batman" WB animated series with the Joker looking like a green haired ape), but again, it's just how I look at it as a fan. i respect everyones right to disagree with me

and not for nothing, but THIS FIGHT between Bane and Batman from the animated series totally blows away the fight in TDKR

to me, Bane following ANYONE'S orders pissed me off, Bane even INTERACTING AT ALL with Talia pissed me off, and Bane actually working for Talia seemed like the director was actually trying to piss me off

the Adam West version was a kinda funny parody of the comic, the joel shumacher version was just an imitation/parody of the adam west version, but it just wasn't really as funny, Arnold's Mr Freeze is funny, but only if you're high on weed, i saw Batman Begins, i just kept waiting for Nolan do do a mr freeze that looks like the way we saw him in that animated movie sub zero

and yes
the animated batman from the early 90's was the best version of batman so far

 

[monoxide_child]

I just watched DOOM on Friday night and I agree, Bane vs Batman battle was amazing with Bane digging up Wayne's parents. Incredible drama that none of the Batfilms have reached on any level.
And yeah, The Batman cartoon was just poorly thought out. I mean what the hell was the Joker supposed to be? Half orangutang?? It did improve a couple of seasons in, when they brought in the show runners from....Batman the Animated Series!!! (see how it always comes back to that show? Lol)

The bottom line is, and Joss Whedon proved it with The Avengers, these directors need to stop trying to change so much, just use these great characters, have a great villain, and a great story, that's it, simple!

DC totally sucks at making live-action movies
the animated super hero movies with DC characters are always so freaking awesome
it would be totally awesome if they just started doing live-action, frame-for-frame, copies of their animated movies

Joss Whedon was chosen as director because avengers is an "ensemble cast" type movie, and whedon has experience directing the "ensemble cast" type TV shows, Buffy and Firefly
no one else in america could have possibly directed a big budget, live action, in theaters, avengers movie, except maybe the people that have been directing the animated, straight to video, movies of the DC characters

 

[monoxide_child]

http://www.google.com/#q=batman+201...pw.r_qf.&fp=8a466bc6b4cb2628&biw=1366&bih=667

 

[monoxide_child]

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/fe...didnt-work-in-the-dark-knight-rises-rfure.php

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...tm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_26649

 

[JenniferLynn]

I paid to see a good movie on an IMAX screen.. I paid to be entertained... I paid to get sucked in and escape reality for awhile...

The movie succeeded in doing that for me - I left happy...

(got teary eyed 3 times, yelled at the screen once - which I've NEVER done before EVER (commish gordon and friends walking out on ice, I yelled 'spread out!!!'))

 

[monoxide_child]

I paid to see a good movie on an IMAX screen.. I paid to be entertained... I paid to get sucked in and escape reality for awhile...

The movie succeeded in doing that for me - I left happy...

(got teary eyed 3 times, yelled at the screen once - which I've NEVER done before EVER (commish gordon and friends walking out on ice, I yelled 'spread out!!!'))

did you read the 2nd link i posted??

 

[nailz]

No, now he changed his catch phrase to "NO! NO! NO!" because AJ hijacked the "YES!" catchphrase.