Black Metal is the worst subgenre

[Bitencourt29]

Hey, hey, hey. Leave the hippos out of this. They did nothing wrong.

I like Hippos, they're cool as fuck.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh, and what is creativity if not embracing the fullness of instruments within one's reach to attain higher and greater realms of originality and uniqueness, rather than remaining stuck the in same old rut for decades on end? Hint: the latter very obviously applies to Thrash Metal, and not a single thing has yet been posted in this topic to prove otherwise. Show me even one single musical aspect that Thrash Metal excels in more than any other metal subgenre and then perhaps we can have a decent discussion - I've already posted plenty of evidence regarding Black Metal in this matter.

"Horrendous" is it? Well, let's see: there is clearly someone in the band who can play the keyboards very well, as well as excellently incoporate symphonic/orchestral sounds into the music - something which is simply miles out of reach of basically any Thrash Metal band out there. And let's take a minute to examine the vocals, which may not exactly be an "instrument", but are still telling: The Ceremonial Castings vocalist can do shrieking, chanting, and guttural growling vocals, all of which are apparently way out of the league of basically every Thrash Metal vocalist ever, the likes of who seem to content with their hysterically-indecisive vocal style: "Should I be heavy or melodic???" Clearly your definition of music quality has very little to do with actual musical skill if you would rate that song as "horrendous"...

I'd also like to take a moment to point out the incredibly hilarious hypocrisy and idiocy evident in this thread by most of the posters who accused me of being "wrong" or attempted to insult me in other ways. If, for example, we had never had this discussion and instead had posted a topic with a poll entitled: "Which subgenre of metal is more original, creative, intense, and truer to the overall concept of metal as a rebellious, non-commercial genre of music: Black Metal or Thrash Metal?" then no doubt Black Metal would have won in a landslide victory, and it's supporters would inevitably have included some of the posters who attempted to take jabs at me here for no other reason than "it seemed like the cool thing to do at the time." I know this to be true because I remember some time back when we ran a poll on this forum about the subgenres of metal that fans here like most, and Death Metal came first, followed closely by Black Metal, and then Thrash was sitting in a distant third. So, yeah, get your hypocritical little heads out of the sand and stop polluting the topic with your petulant nonsense.

You already dismissed the Believer song I posted as "symphonic power metal". I could post some Mekong Delta, a thrash band that actually incorporates classical ideas into their song-writing, but you'd probably still turn them down for want of lame keyboards with all the symphonic elements of a bad Playstation video game soundtrack. Most of what you've posted has almost nothing going for it rhythmically, no matter how many times you insist that poorly-produced mechanical blast beats summons images of frigid Norse winds or whateverthefuck.

I just so happen to prefer, of all the subgenres I listen to, the ones which can blend the epic sound of a full orchestra/choir and other related classical music elements with the other greatest form of music out there - metal. Classical music and metal are the two best genres of music in existance, and they're a marriage made in heaven when wedded well (and no, there isn't any "video game music" going down here, kid). Don't agree there, lad? Well, there's no empirical way to prove which kind of music is "better" than another, unless you perhaps might wish to examine the complexity of the techniques involved - and all my favorite bands score very highly in this regard.

I don't think you posted any songs with more than a couple layers of keyboards, let alone a "full orchestra" of them. You might as well praise the incredible orchestral composition of Iron Maiden's Dance of Death.

 

[Metalum]

basically no keyboards, symphonic elements, folk instrumentals, orchestra elements, electronica, choir, or even growled/shrieked vocals, just the same old clunking drum sound, whiny guitars

Metallica's live S&M album completely refutes this notion:



And this particular example is far and above the songs you have posted that think they are somehow blending classical music with metal because they incorporate some cheesy keyboards on top.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

^ You need to remove the whole '?1318992465' at the end of the url so that it ends on '.jpg' and is recognized as an image.

Right on thanks. I assume its the same kinda deal for youtube.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

 

[UltimateApathy]

You already dismissed the Believer song I posted as "symphonic power metal". I could post some Mekong Delta, a thrash band that actually incorporates classical ideas into their song-writing, but you'd probably still turn them down for want of lame keyboards with all the symphonic elements of a bad Playstation video game soundtrack. Most of what you've posted has almost nothing going for it rhythmically, no matter how many times you insist that poorly-produced mechanical blast beats summons images of frigid Norse winds or whateverthefuck.



I don't think you posted any songs with more than a couple layers of keyboards, let alone a "full orchestra" of them. You might as well praise the incredible orchestral composition of Iron Maiden's Dance of Death.

That's because it wasn't Thrash Metal in any way, shape, or form. Let's follow the logic we used earlier and pretend we had never had this discussion but instead posted that Believer song with the question: "What subgenre of metal is this?" How many people do you really think would stand up and say "Oh fuck yeah, that's tooooootally Thrash Metal!!!" Don't make me laugh - there is a reason that there isn't such a thing as "Symphonic Thrash Metal" and it's because the musicians stuck in this rut of a metal subgenre aren't creative/competent to create it. I wouldn't deny that there may be a handful of Thrash Metal bands that have tried to break the oppressive mold of Thrash conformity, but it is still basically unheard of. Oh, and lolz at that Metallica video with the orchestra as an example since the music that Metallica themselves are playing hardly sounds like Thrash Metal at all.

If a band has too much active keyboard playing then kids like you label it "video game music," and if the keyboards are used mainly as a background atmospheric device then it's "not real musical skill" to you - why don't you just simply accept that (a) you're a technophobic kid who needs some serious counselling, and/or (b) it's just too artistic/creative for your little closed mind to appreciate, and you should just lie down before you hurt yourself?

All you've got are some vague and lame statements about Thrash metal being "better rhythmically," while I am able to pinpoint numerous ways that Black Metal is more creative, varied, complex, and unique than Thrash Metal.

Black Metal is primarily and specifically an underground non-commercial metal movement (unlike Thrash Metal which is one of the biggest commercial/corporate whore-sluts of all the metal subgenres) so it's hardly surprising that most Black Metal bands can't afford to yank entire orchestras into the studio or onto the stage and need to rely on keyboard symphonics insteads. However, some have been able to do it (oh, by the way, look at that Thrash metal rut next to the side of the road).
For example, Dimmu Borgir have performed concerts with an entire orchestra and choir and on the stage:



Cradle Of Flith recorded the entire "Damnation and a Day" album with a full orchestra and choir in the studio:



Well, I could go on, but I think my point has already been proven. And let it it not be said that keyboard symphonics are necessarily notably worse than an actual orchestra/choir, such as in the following song where the significant violin parts could just as easily be/pass for the work of the violin sector in a real orchestra:



I could post plenty of stuff along these lines, but let me just say this: listen to this entire album and then try to tell me that keyboard symphonics are significantly inferior to real orchestras/choirs, and/or that Black Metal is inacapable of blending metal and classical music in the orgasmic way possible. Go ahead, I dare you:

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Metallica isn't thrash. Believer isn't thrash. OK bro. Like I said before, you can make any label bad if you define anything good out of it. The last minute of Mekong Delta's Heroes Grief has basically all the elements that any "symphonic" black metal song does, for one example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofg0dY5Zfbg#t=3m47s

I think it's great that you have to resort to Cradle of Filth to prove your point on "black metal", btw. The Limbonic Art song is still far from "orchestral". They play with many effects but they're all fairly separate/unlayered and short melodies.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

SO MUCH NONSENSE!

Wow, my head is about to explode.

 

[EspaDa]

Fuck you all.

 

[Metalum]

Oh, and lolz at that Metallica video with the orchestra as an example since the music that Metallica themselves are playing hardly sounds like Thrash Metal at all.

You just lost all credibility. The S&M album contains songs from nearly every Metallica album up to the date of it's release. It is ridiculous for you to claim that it is not thrash metal.

Your excuse that most black metal bands don't have enough money to incorporate a full orchestra cuts both ways because most thrash metal bands are not as successful and 'rich' as Metallica and so they lack the resources to do the same.

Oh and nobody has been arguing that black metal bands do not incorporate orchestral elements into their music, it is you who have been arguing that thrash metal doesn't and this claim have been refuted and your entire argument shot to pieces.

At this point you really have nothing more to say, which is why you are resorting to the nonsense you wrote in this last post of yours.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Metallica isn't thrash. Believer isn't thrash. OK bro. Like I said before, you can make any label bad if you define anything good out of it. The last minute of Mekong Delta's Heroes Grief has basically all the elements that any "symphonic" black metal song does, for one example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofg0dY5Zfbg#t=3m47s

I think it's great that you have to resort to Cradle of Filth to prove your point on "black metal", btw. The Limbonic Art song is still far from "orchestral". They play with many effects but they're all fairly separate/unlayered and short melodies.

Yeah, the last minute of that song is *almost* as good as some mediocre symphonic Black Metal - like I said before: needle in a haystack. Ah yes, there it is, the whole "Cradle of Filth isn't Black Metal" argument, the likes of which surfaced with the "Nymphetamine" song, which sure as fuck isn't Black Metal. However, according to wiki, "Dani Filth cited 'the artistic restrictions and mindless inhibitions imposed by a major label' as the band's reason for going independent" in 2010 from Roadrunner Records. The result was, for example, the following song, which is one of the best Symphonic Black Metal songs ever made:



And let us not forget that their debut album, "Dusk...And Her Embrace" is one of the most landmark and significant Symphonic Black Metal albums of all time (I'm particularly partial to 3. Funeral in Carpathia):



Oh, so you think Limbonic Art isn't orchestral enough, son? Did you actually listen to the entire "In Abhorrence Dementia" album before coming to that conclusion? That is one of the most orchestral Black Metal albums ever released - why haven't you been doing your homework, you naughty boy?

 

[Lateralus14]

Have you ever actually listened to any classical music, "you naughty boy"?

 

[Onder]

Have you ever actually listened to any classical music, "you naughty boy"?

No but [INSERT LIMBONIC ART YOUTUBE CLIP] is orgasmic.

EDIT: ..."son".

 

[Metalum]

Yeah, the last minute of that song is *almost* as good as some mediocre symphonic Black Metal - like I said before: needle in a haystack. Ah yes, there it is, the whole "Cradle of Filth isn't Black Metal" argument, the likes of which surfaced with the "Nymphetamine" song, which sure as fuck isn't Black Metal. However, according to wiki, "Dani Filth cited 'the artistic restrictions and mindless inhibitions imposed by a major label' as the band's reason for going independent" in 2010 from Roadrunner Records. The result was, for example, the following song, which is one of the best Symphonic Black Metal songs ever made

Cradle of Filth were never a Black metal band, since you like wiki here it is from the horse mouth: In a 2006 interview with Terrorizer magazine, current guitarist Paul Allender said, "We were never a black metal band. The only thing that catered to that was the make-up. Even when The Principle of Evil Made Flesh came out—you look at Emperor and Burzum and all that stuff—we didn't sound anything like that. The way that I see it is that we were, and still are now, an extreme metal band."

And let us not forget that their debut album, "Dusk...And Her Embrace"

Actually, their debut was The Principle of Evil Made Flesh.

 

[UltimateApathy]

Cradle of Filth were never a Black metal band, since you like wiki here it is from the horse mouth: In a 2006 interview with Terrorizer magazine, current guitarist Paul Allender said, "We were never a black metal band. The only thing that catered to that was the make-up. Even when The Principle of Evil Made Flesh came out—you look at Emperor and Burzum and all that stuff—we didn't sound anything like that. The way that I see it is that we were, and still are now, an extreme metal band."



Actually, their debut was The Principle of Evil Made Flesh.

Yeah, and Dani Filth also claimed in an interview that they were "funk metal" - all totally true as extra-terrestrial anal probing, right? Go listen to "Dusk...and her embrace," it's as Black Metal as Satan's ass - if such a thing were actually to exist

 

[Eligos]

Well, that's a great way to say a whole lot of things without really saying anything, lol.

My post was actually far more concise than anything I've seen coming from your end in this entire thread, but here are the bullet points to clarify:

- You post Limbonic Art videos too much.
- You've demonstrated very limited knowledge of black metal beyond the upper crust of symphonic bands.
- You romanticize about the music that you like more than a typical ANUSite would have back in '06.

* Thanks for calling me crazy in a really nerdy kinda way, I'll take that as a compliment.

I did no such thing. I don't call people "crazy" because it's as archaic and loose-butthole as a term can come. But I would say that you're tragically self-involved.

* You are clearly underrating the range of my metal listening experience simply because I'm continually discussing black metal in a thread that (surprise, surprise) happens to be about black metal. I listen to a very broad range of metal subgenres every day, including black, power, death, folk, thrash, grindcore, metalcore, progressive, gothic/operatic/symphonic, and so on. I can also show you photos of all the concerts I've been to before, they cover literally every metal subgenre in the book, from Cannibal Corpse to Kamelot - can you honestly say the same, son? I just so happen to prefer, of all the subgenres I listen to, the ones which can blend the epic sound of a full orchestra/choir and other related classical music elements with the other greatest form of music out there - metal. Classical music and metal are the two best genres of music in existance, and they're a marriage made in heaven when wedded well (and no, there isn't any "video game music" going down here, kid). Don't agree there, lad? Well, there's no empirical way to prove which kind of music is "better" than another, unless you perhaps might wish to examine the complexity of the techniques involved - and all my favorite bands score very highly in this regard.

Once again, you've only mentioned upper crust bands here. I don't even have to buy a copy of Terrorizer to see full gloss ads on a quick flip through from these bands' latest releases on major record labels like Roadrunner.

Also, whether or not classical is the supreme genre of music is a subjective matter and doesn't really hold water in an argument beyond the point of chest beating. Jazz is by far the most expressive genre in terms of improvisation and the experiences of its musicians in the exact moment they play their tunes. One could say Jazz is the "best" genre for this reason.

why don't you post some of your favorite songs/bands here so that I can gleefully pick them apart in the same way that you just attempted to do to mine?

Sure, have at. Remaining in the grain of black metal, of course.

 

[LegallyBlindMetalhead]

Your username is sub-par. See what I did there? LOL

In all seriousness, I am just getting into this genre, and the atmosphere does it for me.

 

[UltimateApathy]

My post was actually far more concise than anything I've seen coming from your end in this entire thread, but here are the bullet points to clarify:

- You post Limbonic Art videos too much.
- You've demonstrated very limited knowledge of black metal beyond the upper crust of symphonic bands.
- You romanticize about the music that you like more than a typical ANUSite would have back in '06.



I did no such thing. I don't call people "crazy" because it's as archaic and loose-butthole as a term can come. But I would say that you're tragically self-involved.


Once again, you've only mentioned upper crust bands here. I don't even have to buy a copy of Terrorizer to see full gloss ads on a quick flip through from these bands' latest releases on major record labels like Roadrunner.

Also, whether or not classical is the supreme genre of music is a subjective matter and doesn't really hold water in an argument beyond the point of chest beating. Jazz is by far the most expressive genre in terms of improvisation and the experiences of its musicians in the exact moment they play their tunes. One could say Jazz is the "best" genre for this reason.



Sure, have at. Remaining in the grain of black metal, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ-hayqRDOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WnbcLaWzXw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi6znr0VOGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oH0deSKnxQ

Mmmm, more emo-based name-calling, gotta love it, LOLz
Did you really just suggest that Jazz is better than the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Handel, etc? If so, then consider your "chest" well and truly "beaten" - into the black abyss of meaningless mindlessness

Seems odd that you would criticize me for liking Black Metal more than Thrash Metal, then post a lot of Black Metal songs as your favorites when asked. You seem so obsessed with crusts, didn't anyone ever tell you that potatoes and rice are much healthier sources of carbohydrates than bread? Obviously when metal becomes commercial enough to be played on the radio it invariably is shitty (or ceases to actually be metal), but there can also be a point at which being too underground and non-commercial can in some cases actually affect the recording/music quality due to lack of budget/studio recording time/available instrumentation, recording devices, etc (I could barely even hear the vocals on the second and third songs).

For example, on first listen I felt that most of the songs you were posted were relatively solid but I also felt that all of them (although especially the third one) could definitely have benefited both musically and atmospherically from the addition of more symphonic/orchestral elements (although the first song did have its excellent moments in this regard, especially with the varied vocals) to avoid the somewhat "dry and dull" song segments that tended to crop up occasionally. Clearly they didn't have the budget/abillity/intention to do so - I am well-aware that traditional Black Metal was/is very raw and unpolished with low recording quality - but God forbid that a band actually has the abillity/budget to incorporate complex symphonic/orchestral pieces into their Black Metal music at the risk of being called "video game music," right? With the exception of perhaps the first song, nothing else here has quite the sense of epic majestic splendor combined with snarling evil darkness that good Symphonic Black Metal bands (yes, like Limbonic Art) possess.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

Fuck you all.

Metal's finest moment of the new Millennium.

 

[Onder]

Mmmm, more emo-based name-calling, gotta love it, LOLz
Did you really just suggest that Jazz is better than the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Handel, etc? If so, then consider your "chest" well and truly "beaten" - into the black abyss of meaningless mindlessness

Did you even fucking read his post you dumbass? He implied jazz musicians often improvise and hence jazz best expresses the exact moment. It is arguable but you didn't even comprehend the basic meaning of what he said because you're fucking dumb and you only push your dumb blabber about Limbonic Art forward and forward. Fucking think for a moment and then post. You're obnoxious as fuck and stop calling people "kid" and "boy", that's the fastest way to be an irritating cunt.