Black Metal.

Lateralus14 said:
People throw around "avant-garde" way too much here. The avant-garde in music started with far more complex/progressive things.
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I agree. It seems as though a lot of folks take "Sounds like Arcturus" to mean avant garde, and I would not even classify Arcturus as avant garde, more so dramatic symphonic and experimental metal. Their palette is not broad or abstract enough to earn them the title.
 
Well, "avant-garde" doesn't really have a set in stone meaning, so it will mean different things to different people. When I think of something that's avant-garde, I usually think of bands that have albums that are totally different from each other. While Gorguts experiments with a lot of stuff, it's all still Tech Death to some degree.
 
Gorguts is tech death. Avant-garde means too many things to too many people, but Obscura in particular feels more like an art project rather than something to be enjoyed by listeners. The (sub)genre title "avant-garde" suggests a blend of genres and/or aesthetics. Gorguts is just tech death. Something like Forgotten Woods, early Opeth, and Ulver is closer to avant-garde.

Changing from album to album is totally irrelevant in my assessment.

This just reminds me, Forgotten Woods should have been huge.
I'm sure it's because they stopped putting out albums, but this is a band that should have been with 2nd tier bands like Satyricon and Gorgoroth in the mid '90s. The Curse of Mankind is like a bizzarro version of Morningrise. If FW adapted to the times a bit and had some good late '90s material, they could have been either one of the biggest cult bands ever, or a legit hit band that could have run the festival circuit with a major following.

One of the all-time lost opportunities.
 
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Did you just call Opeth "closer to avant-garde"?

And avant-garde music does not require the blending of genres. Look at the (arguably) beginning of the avant-garde, the Second Viennese School. No blending there, just weird music.
 
Nephilim96 said:
Would Metal bands would you consider Avant-Garde?
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Of the bands that often get mentioned within that context, I would say Ephel Duath comes closest to actually earning the title, in that they have a mastery of various styles and blend them together in abstract, uneven manners while still expressing a vast range of emotions and experiences.



Of the bands that often get called "Avant Garde Black Metal", I would say A Forest of Stars and DsO (particularly on Fas) come closest to stripping the genre of its constraints in favor of greater self expression. This raised a crowd of eyebrows when it was released:



It's black metal in that it has blast beats, high pitched screams and shrill guitar tones, but at the time, no other band within arm's reach of DsO was playing anything like this. You could have lumped them in with Occult BM because of the thematic similarities, but to say that Antaeus, Ofermod or Averse Sefira have a sonic similarity beyond aesthetic to Deathspell is quite fallacious.
 
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Nephilim96 said:
Well, "avant-garde" doesn't really have a set in stone meaning, so it will mean different things to different people. When I think of something that's avant-garde, I usually think of bands that have albums that are totally different from each other. While Gorguts experiments with a lot of stuff, it's all still Tech Death to some degree.
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To some degree, yeah. People will argue that Avant Garde is basically Progressive or Technical music. Shit with different ideas that stand out from the rest. Like Gorguts.
 
Why the fuck are you guys talking about gorguts here anyway?

So has anyone checked out the new oranssi pazuzu - valonielu yet? I just ordered it from 20 buck spin. I really like the band. I really liked kosmonument and made it a point to track down the elusive muukalainen puhuu, which I like even more.

Edit: stream here
http://noisey.vice.com/blog/stream-orannsi-pazuzus
 
Finally getting to give it a proper listen. Loving it. Seems heavier than their other releases. Probably going to grab it on wax too because this kind of stuff is made for vinyl.
 
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