busted

[dorian gray]

the continent of africa: europeans broke it, but until we fix it it will continue to be our problem, one gigantic blast furnace of humanitarian crises, one after another.

i understand your point but it still doesn't negate the idea that people should take care of shit themselves. why is it "our problem"? why is a people's inability to keep a deadly sexually transmitted disease from running rampant "my problem"? i don't have AIDS. i have sex with one person. no one paid for my school, my house, my car, my whatever. i don't have 8 children i can't feed. the fact that africans are killing themselves is nothing new. countless civilizations have simply died out for one reason or another - *usually* by their own doing - ecocide. helping africa or any other nation save millions upon millions of people is simply not a good idea - for anyone. humans die. it's not such a big deal.

 

[dorian gray]

i'm sorry, i don't follow. don't you agree immigration is a problem? all i'm saying is the way to stop immigration is not to ignore it! that only increases the problem! read the post!

i agree. i don't think anyone is ignoring the problem though.
meh, i forget what we were talking about.....
*goes back to read post*

 

[dorian gray]

Why because I'm pro-poor?

ha! no, i just recall you saying something about it. might have been someone else though.

 

[Demilich]

i understand your point but it still doesn't negate the idea that people should take care of shit themselves. why is it "our problem"? why is a people's inability to keep a deadly sexually transmitted disease from running rampant "my problem"? i don't have AIDS. i have sex with one person. no one paid for my school, my house, my car, my whatever. i don't have 8 children i can't feed. the fact that africans are killing themselves is nothing new. countless civilizations have simply died out for one reason or another - *usually* by their own doing - ecocide. helping africa or any other nation save millions upon millions of people is simply not a good idea - for anyone. humans die. it's not such a big deal.

hey, i like the way this guy thinks!

 

[cthulufhtagn]

i understand your point but it still doesn't negate the idea that people should take care of shit themselves. why is it "our problem"? why is a people's inability to keep a deadly sexually transmitted disease from running rampant "my problem"? i don't have AIDS. i have sex with one person. no one paid for my school, my house, my car, my whatever. i don't have 8 children i can't feed. the fact that africans are killing themselves is nothing new. countless civilizations have simply died out for one reason or another - *usually* by their own doing - ecocide. helping africa or any other nation save millions upon millions of people is simply not a good idea - for anyone. humans die. it's not such a big deal.

but the reason there is so much unrest and problems in africa is because of us! for example, the bushies are pushing for millions to be spent on "abstinence education". ah yes, if we can't squeeze any more out of them let's ignore the potentially immense effect of condoms and thrust our giant christian dick a little further up their asses! nothing gets me hard like millions of dead africans.

your self-centeredness is astounding, but then, not surprising. can't wait till i move to canada.

 

[KILL TULLY]

that's such a ridiculous, whitewashed, typically republican attitude--"all poor people are poor because they're lazy." seriously, if you have never been broke, living in the projects, with no job prospects, no food, and no future, you simply have no idea what it would be like in that situation. you're right, your tax dollars shouldn't pay for an able-bodied man to wander the streets in a drunken stupor, but they should go to help somebody working double shifts in a fast food restaurants trying to feed 2 kids while scraping together enough money to move out of their shithole single apartment in the ghetto. because that kind of shit should not happen in america.

and if you say "why is that my problem", it just goes to show the immensity of your greed. republicans disgust me.

Dude, this really baffles me. It's easy for you to say "this is a typical republican attitude", but the stuff your saying SCREAMS "I'm a democrat and we are what is right and just in this world", actually thinking that that mother of two working double shifts is in the majority of what our tax dollars go to. That is not correct, and if it WAS, then by fuck of course I wouldn't be complaining because those are brave, hardworking people, and I'll help them get on there feat (once they get there I would let them go though of course) but that is not the truth. In the projects there are MANY more people that are surviving on welefare checks and foodstamps and goverment handouts then there are people working very hard to keep food on the table. BUT my point is that we can not generalize in any dirrection, you can not generalize that the people that are recieving help from our money are all brave homemakers, and others can not generalize that the people receiving the help are all washout drunks.

 

[KILL TULLY]

but the reason there is so much unrest and problems in africa is because of us!

How much do you know about Africa? Most of the violence and bloodshead in africa is due to age-old tribal feuds, not due to outside influence. The way we have contributed to this bloodshead is by introducing western weaponry into the hands of tribal warriors. We can never ever EVER squelch the inter-tribe rivalry in Africa, its part of the their culture, and has been sense before history.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Dude, this really baffles me. It's easy for you to say "this is a typical republican attitude", but the stuff your saying SCREAMS "I'm a democrat and we are what is right and just in this world", actually thinking that that mother of two working double shifts is in the majority of what our tax dollars go to. That is not correct, and if it WAS, then by fuck of course I wouldn't be complaining because those are brave, hardworking people, and I'll help them get on there feat (once they get there I would let them go though of course) but that is not the truth. In the projects there are MANY more people that are surviving on welefare checks and foodstamps and goverment handouts then there are people working very hard to keep food on the table. BUT my point is that we can not generalize in any dirrection, you can not generalize that the people that are recieving help from our money are all brave homemakers, and others can not generalize that the people receiving the help are all washout drunks.

a very well-concieved post, and i understand what you're saying but i think we should take the bad with the good rather than neglect the good altogether. there just isn't really a solution to this problem that everyone can agree on, and taking a middle-ground solution is something nobody can agree with. it's a political matter that has more to do with personal philosophy than perhaps any other issue, aside from war.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

How much do you know about Africa? Most of the violence and bloodshead in africa is due to age-old tribal feuds, not due to outside influence. The way we have contributed to this bloodshead is by introducing western weaponry into the hands of tribal warriors. We can never ever EVER squelch the inter-tribe rivalry in Africa, its part of the their culture, and has been sense before history.

not true, for example, in rwanda it was indeed a tribal feud, but it was between two tribes that were established by the belgian colonists. slicing up the continent into colonies with no regard for native cultures had a hell of a lot to do with it as well. the historical oppressors and exploiters are far more complicit in this than your post implies.

 

[NAD]

Hey has anyone been paying attention to China taking over US companies? Maytag and Unocal could be going to the commies! ALRIGHT!!!

that's the anarchist in me coming out

 

[dorian gray]

haha! that's funny to me because i'm not a republican. i've maintained quite a liberal attitude my entire life but i guess i'm growing more "conservative". i think i see things that many of you guys who are in college and have desk jobs don't. i spend alot of time dealing with people who are taking advantage of the "system". i deal with people who would be better off dead as opposed to sucking up the resources that others provide. so many sick people man. an endless line of them. and i think, what's so bad about dying? why do people need to increase costs for everyone else so they can continue to watch daytime television?

i agree with your assertion that "i have no idea" what it's like to live in the projects. however, i was pretty poor growing up and my wife was actually "church-poor" - lived in the projects and received gov't assistance. we were both poor because of stupid decisions by our parents. her mom had two children out of wedlock with a drunken loser. she eventually got her shit together and got a high paying job. but she got help along the way from taxpayers. i question whether or not she should have. it's one thing to give aid from your own pocket but why should joe average be forced to provide financial help to someone they don't know? the bottom line is this: why do others' errors in judgement fall upon those who choose not to make such bad decisions? why don't *i* get some free shit?

ps: and, yes, apparently the system worked in my wife's case. giving her mom a chance to go to college and get out of poverty allowed my wife to go to an even better school and get an even higher-paying job but their case is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Hey has anyone been paying attention to China taking over US companies? Maytag and Unocal could be going to the commies! ALRIGHT!!!

that's the anarchist in me coming out

Fuck you, fuck America. Fuck everybody. Go Saddam. Nuke everybody and fuck off. [/bill hicks]

 

[NAD]

Bill Hicks rules.

I used to be on the personal responsibility kick, and I still practice it. I've never gotten any handouts, I never will, and I'll always pay a shitload in taxes every year. But I'm at the point where I just don't give a shit. Some dude wants to live off food stamps? Fuck 'em, go right ahead. I'd rather a few poor people did that than some rich asshole not have to pay taxes on his stock earnings, and only take home $175,000 this year.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

the bottom line is this: why do others' errors in judgement fall upon those who choose not to make such bad decisions? why don't *i* get some free shit?

because it's not as simple as "well you've squandered every opportunity you've had, let's take money away from joe taxpayer and put it in your pocket". what do you say about the people for whom the system has worked? as your own wife's experience can attest, people are affected by circumstances beyond their control. is it a person's fault they are born into poverty? is it simply a woman's "mistake" that her husband abuses her and she is forced to leave everything to escape it? every time i argue politics with anybody it leaves me even less willing to give a shit anymore. fuck it. i'm white, male, and well-off. fuck the rest of you.

 

[dorian gray]

... the bushies are pushing for millions to be spent on "abstinence education......your self-centeredness is astounding, but then, not surprising. can't wait till i move to canada.

i don't really understand what you're saying here but i am not represented by the bush administration. i did not vote for him. however, what is wrong with abstinence education? and what does that have to do with "christian dicks"? the christians i know are actually in africa while you're sitting at a computer at your high-cost "liberal arts college". if i sound like a typical republican, you sound like the typical do-nothing hippies i grew up around near antioch college.

 

[MajestikMøøse]

can't wait till i move to canada.

I haven't been paying attention to this thread at all, but just for shits and giggles to take this quote out of context

I love how everyone* thinks that all the world's problems will all of a sudden miraculously disappear the second that they become naturalized Canadian citizens.

*broad generalization

 

[dorian gray]

....I'll always pay a shitload in taxes every year. But I'm at the point where I just don't give a shit. Some dude wants to live off food stamps? Fuck 'em, go right ahead. I'd rather a few poor people did that than some rich asshole not have to pay taxes on his stock earnings, and only take home $175,000 this year.

dude, so you pay a "shitload of taxes every year" but rich people don't? you're not making any sense. look, i don't like rich people any more than you do but is there a good reason for that? not really. why should i fault doctor bob for going to med school and working 70 hours a week to make $200,000? or joe business man who put a 100 hours a week into his company and is finally successful? granted, many of these people had helping hands from *their* rich parents - but, somewhere, back down the line, they were poor too. They just decided to do something about it.

yes, some rich people are rich because they exploit others. they have taken advantage. they may have, at one point, owned slaves. that shit is not cool. but there's stuff you can do about it - and it's not bitching that there's some right wing rich people conspiracy that only 1/10th of a percent has 99.99% of the wealth blah blah blah. if you don't like company x's business practices, stop buying their shit. i fucking hate wal-mart. you know what? i don't shop there. i also tell everyone i know not to shop there. at least i'm trying.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

i don't really understand what you're saying here but i am not represented by the bush administration. i did not vote for him. however, what is wrong with abstinence education? and what does that have to do with "christian dicks"? the christians i know are actually in africa while you're sitting at a computer at your high-cost "liberal arts college". if i sound like a typical republican, you sound like the typical do-nothing hippies i grew up around near antioch college.

the abstinence education is not related to the self-centeredness. but let's see, hmm, either try and impress upon african people a christian tradition that is not only culturally foreign to them but does nothing to actually prevent the spread of aids, or teach them to use condoms? just guessing, i'm thinking a lot more people would reject the abstinence teaching than the condoms. just a guess.

and yeah, maybe i am a typical do-nothing hippie. i used to give a shit, i read mother jones and went to marches and all that shit, and then i realized that humanity is by and large the most vile plague this world has ever belched forth and trying to change things for the better is like trying to stop a tsunami with an umbrella. (points individually to each person) fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, (points at nad) you're cool, i'm out. [/half baked]

no hard feelings, political discussions bring out the worst in everybody and i don't want to carry grudges around. i know you're a stand-up guy, dorian.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

I haven't been paying attention to this thread at all, but just for shits and giggles to take this quote out of context

I love how everyone* thinks that all the world's problems will all of a sudden miraculously disappear the second that they become naturalized Canadian citizens.

*broad generalization

haha not the world's problems, just mine. i can dream, can't i?

 

[dorian gray]

is it a person's fault they are born into poverty? is it simply a woman's "mistake" that her husband abuses her and she is forced to leave everything to escape it? every time i argue politics with anybody it leaves me even less willing to give a shit anymore. fuck it. i'm white, male, and well-off. fuck the rest of you.

no, but capitalism allows the impoverished to rise above being born into poverty. yes, a person's choice of mate is their own ultimate repsonsibility. what's wrong with "leaving everything to escape it"? i would.

look, like the old rush song, "we need someone to talk to and someone to sweep the floors". we're always gonna need people to do menial tasks. that's just the way it is now that we are waaaaayyy beyond the farming, hunting and gathering stage. there's nothing inherently wrong with sweeping a floor for a living. i just think, if you have the means, try to get a higher paying job, if it exists. if you're not smart enough or capable enough, then oh well. it's not the end of the world. so you can't buy that new ferrari. so what?