Christian vs. Secular music?

[athensbum]

>3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
>praise him with the harp and lyre,

>4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
>praise him with the strings and flute,

>5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
>praise him with resounding cymbals.


Yeah, I'm just getting around to reading this. . . I'm sure some would note that the Bible includes all these instruments, but not the guitar!! Of course, it doesn't mention pianos or organs, either, much less automobiles, televisions, telephones, airplanes. . .

Just some thoughts. I bump heads with non-Christians a lot, like on my first day of work when my new boss found out Matt's band was called "Theocracy" and she asked, "Isn't that what we have in this country?" :Smug:

*sigh*

 

[Matt Smith]

>
Yeah, I'm just getting around to reading this. . . I'm sure some would note that the Bible includes all these instruments, but not the guitar!! >

>4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
>praise him with the strings and flute,

I'm pretty sure guitars have strings...

 

[circleofone]

right on..

 

[Snert]

Speaking of growled vocals, you remind me of my band search today. I was going through Christian acts and I came across ultimatum. Their vocals sounded like an angry teddy bear.

Snert, I can see how you would say that. Even though Christian has a good voice, he doesn't use hardly any variation, and lucky for him, the music is varied enough for it to not drag it down.

@ the angry teddy bear
Well, I'm not a big fan of Scott Water's vocals either and your description is pretty fitting (he also uses death growls btw that are pretty good), but I have a LOT of respect for him and Ultimatum. I know him (and the other bandmembers) from the discussion board I frequently visit (Christian Metal Realm). Scott is a great guy and on fire for the ministry. And many people like his vocals...so more power to him and Ultimatum!
By the way...do you know Vengeance Rising? They have reunited as "Once Dead" without the original vocalist Roger Martinez. Scott Waters also does the vocals for Once Dead.

as for Rivel's vocals...I agree again. I think he improved his singing style on the last albums he did compared to earlier Narnia albums and he gained passion and emotion in his singing, but still more variation would be appreciated.

 

[dwellceller]

I think Christian's vocals were the best they've ever been on the Divinefire and Audiovision cds....and i love both those cds....The new Divinefire cd called 'Hero' has just been finished! Hey Matt...have you heard the Divinefire cd 'glory thy name' ...has alot of symphonic elements to it and is quite fast power metal.

Back to the topic ....when i was a young christian i also being young at the time closed myself off from virtually everything secular music wise ...and missed out on a lot of good music ....In the last decade i've enjoyed alot of good secular music such as Pink Floyd, Dream Theater,Symphony X, Fear Factory etc....It doesn't affect my faith at all....i appreciate the music for what it is and don't like to lump music into categories anymore like 'Secular vs christian' .....although i do listen to alot of good christian metal,prog rock etc.... However for those christians who have problems with some secular music that's fine for you. I consider this whole topic similar to the 'food offered to idols' issue in the book of Corinthians.....If your faith can't handle 'secular' music that's fine for you.....etc ...... i don't listen to music that is obviously anti christian such as Deicide etc....

As for 'growly' bands ...i'm very picky....only liked a few vocalists in this category ....eg Roger Martinez, Max from Soulfly/Sepultura, Jarod from Ethereal Scourge come to mind...... my fav metal styles are power metal and thrash metal.

Hey Snert (fellow CMR member) ...I agree ...i don't really get into Scott's vocals that much but he's a really cool member of various forums and i always appreciate his posts. I'm really keen for the new Once Dead material and love the Live DvD that came out.

 

[athensbum]

>
Yeah, I'm just getting around to reading this. . . I'm sure some would note that the Bible includes all these instruments, but not the guitar!! >

>4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
>praise him with the strings and flute,

I'm pretty sure guitars have strings...

Oh no! I have been OWN8D!!

 

[Doogie_Brian]

One other thing to watch out for is the "stumbling block" issue. Even if you dont have a problem with "secular" music (gotta love the "s), you have to take care that you dont lead someone else into an area that would hinder their faith. You may have better judgement than some of those around you.

 

[Spyderman-Hyderman]

here's a great essay written by Michael Kiske (Helloween fame). He is a proud to be Christian these day, and at his official website (which I no longer can find...only the SupaRed one) he used to have lengthy discussions about his faith with his fans. anyway this essay isn't about Christian/secular music...but about the industry and critics of music in general....and gives a little insight into the brain of this extremely talented man.
http://supared.homelinux.com/lang/us/phil/critics.htm

 

[anexanhume]

dwellceller,

It's nice to see another FF fan here. As they are my favorite band, I really struggled with the lyrics trying to determine what message of Christianity Burton is trying to convey( I've also done this with Iced Earth. Schaffer says he isn't a Christian, but he's not a satanist either ). It's especially obscure on Archetype. However, do you actually listen to the song pisschrist?

 

[dwellceller]

I don't listen to the song 'pisschrist' .....Most recent FF songs are okay....I usually don't listen to songs that are outright offensive like that one....Most recent FF songs are about the idea of 'fighting a system' ...addressing the theme of man trying not to be slave to a machine etc....i can relate to that on a worldwide scale ie - we all don't want to be just a number or just part of an assembly line, and also unfortunately a great deal of christianity being more like a business/factory than an organic community.
Obviously wisdom should be used...if i sense or find out someone i know struggles with this issue i won't play or focus of some secular bands out of respect for them....but the last thing i want to go back to is the whole 'us and them' attitude i had years ago.

 

[dwellceller]

One more thing Anexanhume....Ask the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom about this whole thing. Matters like this are often an issue conscience for each individual....For some it might be better to distance themselves from alot of music for awhile at least. Most of the 'secular' music i listen to is pretty positive such as Dream Theater, Avantasia,Pyramaze, Balance of Power, Ayreon, Star One, and a lot of instrumental music and even alot of electronic music that is experimental such as Autechre, Aphex Twin, Orbital, Kraftwerk, etc.....
I do listen to a lot of good christian metal, and prog rock such as Tourniquet, narnia, Jacobs Dream, Rob Rock. Theocracy (obviously), Divinefire,Saviour Machine, Neal Morse, Ajalon, Iona, and many classic old bands like Sacred Warrior, Deliverance, Vengeance, The Crucified,
as well as rock like Stavesacre, Whiteheart, etc.....

Burton from Fear Factory is an interesting character...His new solo project 'Ascension of The Watchers' has some pretty good christian type lyrics and i always love his voice. I want to chek the music out for this. I really love the mix of brutal heavy music in Fear Factory combined with electronic elements...very atmospheric!
With artists such as these i often take the lyrics and interpret them to things i feel that relate to....ie personalize them.

 

[anexanhume]

dwellceller, were you aware that FF has a new record coming out August 23rd? You can get a full song from the album to listen to ( not the album produced version though ) at Moment of Impact There is also samples floating around of the other songs, but from what I hear from close sources to the band, this is one of the most varied records they have done. Burton has seemed to include instrumental songs that sound like they belong on a AOTW record, but songs like Moment of Impact are still very heavy hitting. I'm unusually excited because I want to know how it fits together and flows.

Supernova Clip Real Audio
Transgression Clip Click on truetones to find sample.
E-Card with Supernova and 540,000 Degrees Fahrenheit

 

[Foolishandbroken]

Hi guys, just thought I'd put my oar in.
I've been a Christian since I was little, and also liked metal since I was little.
I've grown up with CHristian metal bands as a young Christian, they built up my faith and encouraged me (eg Vengeance Rising, Tourniquet, Deliverance, Believer etc).
I have also listened to a lot of positive "secular" music which has uplifted me and drawn me closer to God as well.
As I have grown in God, I find myself listening more and more to God-honouring music: but I find the divide of secular v christian as a bit unreal. After all, God created music, God created us: we're all blind worms crawling in the dark, scratching our way towards God. EVen the most Satanic death-metaller has something in him that yearns for God. I like it when people express their hopes, dreams, longings, fears, depressions, anxieties....its good to hear, and as a creative person I appreciate that from any living human being, CHristian or not.

ANyway , that's me. I find Theocracy music lifts me towards God, and I appreciate getting to know Matt a bit more on these boards....God bless you all on your journey towards Him. (God that is, not Matt).

Blessings
Si

 

[Foolishandbroken]

PS other websites about Christian metal:

metalforjesus.com

nolifetilmetal.com (guy reviews his CD collection, secular and Christian)

christianrocklyrics.com
christianhardrock.net

 

[Kenneth R.]

i agree with a lot of you guys...

my personal bit on the issue is that christian music is great, but one shouldn't discount secular music either. God has given us music, to praise him and to sing our stories. a lot of secular music has interesting things to say, thought provoking and insightful, despite not being of faith.

i draw the line at negativity. bands whose music is created with the purpose of degrading groups of people or their ideas, i dislike and won't listen to. criticism of government, society, and even church is fine by me, as these are systems, things that are imperfect and need some quality control from time to time. i can't stand lyrics that talk down to humanity though.

 

[anexanhume]

Matt, I noticed in an interview you mentioned Edguy as one of your biggest influences. Looking at Edguy and Avantasia lyrics, I'm stumped. It's really ambiguous as to whether it is pro-Christianity, or anti-Christianity. What are your thoughts? I looked everywhere for interviews confirming anything, but I couldn't find them.

 

[dwellceller]

Yes anexanhume i'm fully aware of the new FF cd coming out and i've downloaded the song 'moment of impact' ...sounds very good! and liked the other samples i've heard so far

The Avantasia cds 'The Metal Opera' are excellent....especially the first one IMO.....I love songs like 'Reach out for the light' ...one of the best metal songs ever IMO

 

[Nightmare1z]

Here's the info on Edguy from their forum

"- Are they a christian band?

Nope, they don't play "White metal" and don't have christian themes in their songs. Surely everyone of them has his own confession (or not, who cares), but surely they aren't a christian band.

Tobi wrote:
I DO NOT REALLY KNOW IF EDGUY IS A CHRISTIAN BAND. WE ARE NOT POLITICAL AND WE ARE NOT RELIGIOUS, AT LEAST THERE IS NO KEY MESSAGE IN OUR SONGS TELLING YOU WHAT TO THINK IN TERMS OF ANYTHING. THAT BEING SAID, I AM PERSONALLY REALLY INTERESTED IN PHILOSOPHY AND RELIGION BECAUSE SOMEHOW THEY BELONG TOGETHER FOR ME. BUT WE ARE NEITHER STRYPER NOR DEICIDE, WE NEITHER THROW BIBLES INTO THE AUDIENCE, NOR DO WE SPREAD STUPID MESSAGES LIKE "GOD HAS GOT A SHORT PENIS" I LIKE TO SING ABOUT THINGS I HAVE ON MY MIND AND OF COURSE ENTERTAIN AS WELL... "

Even the lyrics for the song "New Age Messiah" could be taken to be anti-Christian, however Tobias came out and said that the song was not literally referring to Jesus but a person trying to be their own Jesus. Or something like that...I can't remember it all really.

All I know is Tobias is crazy enough, that he writes songs about whatever floats his boat.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i think a lot of lyrics that get misinterpreted as anti-christian are really anti-"poser"-christian. it's difficult to explain what i mean. such songs aren't against the religion, but the abuse and manipulation of it through so-called followers, who are in actuality no true christians.

 

[anexanhume]

Nightmarez, I can definitely see that ( oddness, whatever floats his boat ). He seems like a Devin Townsend kind of character.