Close Minded Metalheads

Most of Meshuggah's stuff is in 4/4? Are we talking about the same band?

Yep. A lot of it is in 4/4, it's just the polyrhythms that seem to throw it off. Of course not every song is in 4/4, but there are a whole bunch that are. It should be said, however, that their 4/4 songs aren't the same as Bolt Thrower's or something straight forward like that. There's a whooooole lot more going on with Meshuggah.

They have different passages in their songs that take it in different directions, which of course changes the time signature.

EDIT: Oops, I see there has already been an explanation.

And yes, it's hilarious to watch people try to headbang at a Meshuggah show.
 
Hedon, although things do add up to 4/4 in the end (a consequence of the Chinese Remainder Theorem and the drummer's accents) it's oversimplifying somewhat to consider them 4/4. The accents are certainly not straightforward, the emphasis isn't where it should be, and the patterns are just too damned weird.

Jeff
 
I think that was aimed at me. However, I'm not labeling them a 4/4 band, NOT IN THE LEAST. It would definitely be oversimplifying their music to label them 4/4.

Here's an interview that explains it better and will put all speculation to rest, by the band themselves:

A lot of listeners would probably be shocked to hear that most of your music is in 4/4! What is the twist that you’re putting on things so that people are getting this other impression?

Well, there is definitely more to the music than just 4/4. But the main thing is the 4/4 feel. For us, that’s a very important aspect to it. It helps us in giving the music a certain amount of flow. You can actually -- at least on a good night -- get into a groove. If you want to translate it into being “here’s this number of bars in 23/16” and this last part turns into thirteen sixteenth notes and starts over. That’s not how we perceive our music. It’s just a matter of that last one flowing in an odd number over the 4/4 beat. [Pieslak’s article does not, in fact, contradict this, and underscores Haake’s point with charts and analysis that detail the band’s use of “metric superimposition.” -- Ed.] Therefore, the 4/4 that we write and play around is the most important aspect. I usually play eighth notes on the hi hat all the time. So everyone in the band can headbang.

And that’s important. It’s kind of like a sine curve. If the 4/4 is a line going through the music, everyone else is doing things around that, and also that everyone is doing things in cycles that are sllightly different so that they intersect the main rhythm at odd points.

Yeah, yeah. Totally. That’s kind of how most of it is done. But I don’t hear the various cycles. I don’t count or hear the odd numbers. For example, if you have a riff that plays on the eighth notes, but plays nine times and then it starts over, that one just keeps going for like four, eight, sixteen, or thirty two bars and then it starts over. That’s usually how most of the stuff is done. It doesn’t really matter to us how that goes. It’s just a matter of listening to it enough and getting it into your system how you play it. Instead of counting and repeating a cycle, you kind of learn each bar differently than the bar previous, so you hear the riff as a long structure more than as a repetition of what it’s built out of.

Here's the full interview if you want: http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/crossfade/2008/04/interview_meshuggah.php

Here's another example:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hedon, although things do add up to 4/4 in the end (a consequence of the Chinese Remainder Theorem and the drummer's accents) it's oversimplifying somewhat to consider them 4/4. The accents are certainly not straightforward, the emphasis isn't where it should be, and the patterns are just too damned weird.

Jeff

yeah thats what i said in that last paragraph i thinks:loco:
 
I couldn't quite parse it that way, I guess - when you called it 'wankery' I couldn't tell exactly what you meant. It's not 'wrong', but it certainly fails to be right in any meaningful or interesting way.

Dead Winter, I wasn't directing my comment at you - I was just trying to clarify why it can come out to sounding like 4/4 so easily.

Jeff
 
I think he was referring to someone saying they're a 4/4 band as wankery, not the band themselves.

yeah like, when someone comes to you saying "meshuggah is complex? wtf man its just 4/4!" its true but the guy is still a wanker. even when the band themselves say all the bullshit about "not thinking about the complex stuff but just feeling the 4/4 groove".. yeah right:saint:
meshuggah is awesome though

talking about meshuggah i heard seed awakening and i think it contains nevermore's biggest rhythmic mind fuck. the witness seed awakening part at 0:50
i think its 3 16's and then bars of 5/8 but the second half of that part is a more confusing because the snare is on *1* 2 3 4 *5* 6 7 8 9 10

or something

if u remember any give me some more nevermore mindfucks like this one its interesting
 
oh gawd how i hate Meshuggah fans, even the band itself says that they are just playing at random, there's no fucking math equations or something over-thought. As for me Meshuggah is utterly boring, since i can't stand randomness in music, it has to have a beginning, middle and a end.

as for the topic, +1 to:
Metalheads... close minded? Someone call the fucking press!
 
You're still misreading what I'm actually saying. I'm not saying that they sit there with a chalkboard and an algebra text to write songs, don't you have better things to do than deliberately misread posts?

Jeff
 
talking about meshuggah i heard seed awakening and i think it contains nevermore's biggest rhythmic mind fuck. the witness seed awakening part at 0:50
i think its 3 16's and then bars of 5/8 but the second half of that part is a more confusing because the snare is on *1* 2 3 4 *5* 6 7 8 9 10

or something

if u remember any give me some more nevermore mindfucks like this one its interesting
I've never understood what they're doing in that part. It's awesome!
 
hahaha me too.

Actually just now I saw "new by post EricT" and thought to myself "I hope he finally has said something about the topic!"

Thanks for delivering!


edit: I've been informed you've pointed this out before. That's what I get for ignoring the thread due to all the terrible posts.
 
I have more to chime in after reading a few posts from this page...

I don't care how fucking "technically proficient" meshuggah is supposed to be, their fucking music is horrible. I imagine the process for recording a Meshuggah album is to record a machinist at work for an hour, press it on to vinyl, then randomly stab notches into that fucking vinyl for an hour or two. Actually, it's not music... It's the end result of a 6 year old child playing with his fathers record collection.
 
Actually the band had to study six months before recording their last album.

Meshuggah is definitely not a band for people who don't appreciate intricate rhythm structures. I can't listen to them for more than an hour or so, I start to feel claustrophobic. I still feel that their flavor of metal is a fuckton better than what many other bands are doing these days, however. It's at least interesting.