Cool Nordström Interview

[slashvanyoung]

... because you can't run a garage in a computer. If it would be otherwise, it would be completely the same.

I really understand that you're angered about this, but again, if "everyone" thinks he HAS to open a "(professional) studio", than there is nothing you can do about it. And you're right, there's no need for excuses because these kids have nothing to excuse for. You might don't like what they do, but its not your business.

 

[::XeS::]

We can send some tax inspector on their bedroom, asking for software licenses

 

[CatharsisStudios]

this is how i started

i was recording bullshit untill i got here. where donovan/postmortem1666 showed me vst plugins and reaper. i used to mic amps (shittly) an use beatcraft and didn't know compression or what not, just thought my singer sucked

after he showed me vst plugs in reaper. i started torrenting plugins and shit to get more plugs. as the years went on in my little bedroom studio having the drummer play on a elec kit into a fast track pro with my old stereo as the monitors and i didn't even have a desk i used Ez drummer and DKFH but i bought those cause i had a little cash, so started doing all that bs, using cracked plugs, presets and trying shit out on my own, but every day i learned a bit more about how all that shit works. later on i finally bought a mesa cab with the money i made from my pirate bedroom studio and real guitar gear and started micing it up but with the usage i learned from cracked plugs and vst amps i knew exactly what my raw tone should sound like (thanks to guitarhacks and jeffs mesa impulses) so i worked on that for ever. i started buying plugs, new i/o, and monitors
and wahlah i am looking for a place i can make my own studio now


POINT IS

before you cast them down. they are just trying to really learn sooner or later they will go legit, cause you get fucking tired of having to crack shit and you just want it to work

 

[Lodge]

I really do get sick of the argument both ways. To be honest, the problem is that everyone of us are just a bunch of douche bags. There are two sides to this argument, those being you guys that own MULTIPLE amps that are more than 1000 U.S. dollars, such as your Engls and Mesas with oversized cabs loaded with vintage 30's, a multitude of mics all more than 100 dollars, the best interfaces with the best converters, etc.

Then you have the guys such as myself, who have the one shitty presonus interface, the solid state amp head not worth mentioning, the second hand mics and whatever else bullshit you could afford.

Both sides really need to feel where the other is coming from. To you guys with the gear: Yes, you probably worked very hard to obtain your 10 thousand dollars worth of recording equipment, and in most cases you are the guys that have way more knowledge and ability, but you really need to realize that some of us, who work hard at a job we hate EVERY day of our lives and spend every dime we make just to make it through the week HAVE to use sims. Do you guys REALLY fucking think that we want to use a goddamn amp in a fucking box? Hell no we don't. We want to fucking mic up a 1200 dollar mesa with a 400 dollar cab and 400 dollar mics and run that shit into an equally expensive console just like you guys. This example is guitars alone! I know I look at some of your gear lists, and I just wonder how the fuck do you manage it? Did you win the fucking lottery? So I'm sure someone will be offended by this and offer some great advice like "save your money" or whatever. My point to this side of the fence is stop being a fucking pretentious douche bag to the lower class, stop turning your fucking nose up at us just because we are not fortunate enough to have what you have, thus we have to work with the hand we were dealt.

Now I move on to the other side of the argument, to the douche bags that use cracked plugs, free amp sims and RadioShack mics or whatever the fuck. You motherfuckers need to realize what the fuck you are doing to the people that have taken YEARS of their life to learn this craft and spent the fucking thousands I mentioned earlier to obtain what they have. If you want to crack a DAW or a plug-in and record your own band or your own shit for your band's promotion, just to have something tangible to hand to someone and say "here, we sound like this," then do what you must. But sweet mother of fuck don't be a douche bag and try to get on myspace and pose as if you have a real fucking studio, trying to charge someone money for some shit you did, when you know damn right you have no clue what the fuck you are doing. I'm not saying all bedroom studios are bullshit, it only applies to the people that try to pass this bullshit off as professional. You everyone fucking sick, and people like you are the reason why the few people left around here that know what the fuck they are talking about don't come around so much.

In closing of this admittedly bullshit rant, all I'm trying to say is this: If you are one of the pros around here with the gear, the knowledge, etc... Just remember where you came from and don't look down on people that have no option other than the ITB route. As Lasse basically said, not everyone can be what they want to be, but everyone has the right to do everything possible, even if that means piracy, to achieve their dream. As for the others, show some fucking respect for these pros. How the hell do you think they feel when every other post is "So i am producering for these local bands and i has my studio with fender squire starter guitar and compaq presario monitors and they are paying me so what what plug-ins do I use ot make it sound good? by the way i have waves diamond and pro tools and the ozone."
uke:

 

[Soundlurker]

but that's what I mean, not EVERYONE BETWEEN 16 and 22 HAS to open a studio!

Given the amount of dedication a career in audio production requires if you are really serious about it you either have to spend most of your time recording/mixing/analysing or not bother at all. Once you start pursuing an unrelated career there's slim chance you'll ever be able to get back to serious recording.

Furthermore, most people between 16-22 are usually filled with very strong ambitions and won't stop at nothing to fulfill them.

However I agree they should not state that what they have is a studio, at least untill they've put enough effort and investments to deserve it.

 

[::XeS::]

+1 to Lodge.
Everybody has to start from nothing, so everyone start like Ryan explained. The point is simply the second part of your post.
I'm with you also for the first part, because I hate when big names say "I can't charge 1000€/day anymore".... 1000€/day is a fuckin load of money and only big bands can afford those rates.

 

[Charlie E.]

Ermz I agree that there is something special about some CD's like the Clayman one.
Besides the good songs and arrangements, the production has a character of its own and really makes the CD shine even more.
And I agree about the perfect CD's sounding boring and bland.
Just last night while building some furniture I had my Oh Sleeper CD playing which sounds pretty friggin good actually. Mastered by Alan Douches, clear mix etc But I got bored!
I put on the Clayman CD and I immediately smile and enjoy putting together my furniture a lot more Granted I like the songs better but the production was just easier for me to appreciate and thus it made the songs shine that much more. It had character!

 

[Josh Burgess]

I absolutely agree.

It's kinda funny, when Trivium announced that they would take the "all natural" approach for their latest album they got ripped to pieces here. Especially after it had been dead obvious that there was a lot of sample replacement etc. going on.

So yeah, what happened to "it's the final product that matters"?

Established engineers are pissed because "bedroom warriors" have left demo-level and start to fish in their waters, even though they have spent way less time, money and effort dedicated to this craft. Established engineers then often proceed to complain about the lacklustre quality of these products.

You still get what you pay for. But these times you just get a certain quality for way less money.

Established engineers wouldn't even need to complain if "bedroom warriors" wouldn't be able to put out competitive products with much less means.

So who is in the position to say who can call himself an audio/mixing engineer and who not? It's not a protected term, anyone and his mother can call himself that.

The way I see it: People are just bitter. They've put all the money and dedication into their art to get where they are. Now just to find out that "bedroom warriors" are destroying the market with their rates?

In the end, all the whining won't make amp-sims, drum libraries etc. disappear. It's the opposite, it will get easier and easier, cheaper and cheaper to make a quality record.

It's just the reality, either you reach a level on which you can survive or you don't. Every "bedroom warrior" will get to the same point if he wants to make the next step forward.

That's life, swim or drown - glorifying the old times won't help you.

If somebody doesn't want to invest more money to get his stuff recorded and mixed by professionals, in a professional environment with professional equipment, then they obviously don't think it is worth the extra money or they just don't have a clue. Either way, people can do whatever the fuck they want.

+1 I agree completely.

If big time guys with ridiculously expensive equipment and rates can't make money anymore, then that is THEIR PROBLEM. If "bedroom warriors" can put out releases that rival the quality of what you can do, then that is great for them and not so good for you. But guess what.... that is your fault! If all of your gear and knowledge are GENUINELY superior to what the "bedroom warriors" have to offer, then show everyone how it's done and put out some amazing releases.

It's either put out better mixes/productions or don't. Make better music or don't. It's up to you. Times have changed and will continue to change. Technology will increase and current technologies will go down in price. It is inevitable. More and more people will be able to afford the tools that they need to release music that can compete on a professional level, and if there is no dramatic leap in what that "professional level" actually currently is, then more and more people will be able to get there easier/faster with less money and less tools. That's just the way it is. It may piss off many current pros, but honestly the really huge mixers/producers out there make way more than enough money for their services than they need or argueably even deserve. The whole reason so many people are willing to do whatever it takes (pirating software/drum programming/vst amp sims/etc.) is because they cannot afford what it costs to work with these top of the line pros.

And please do not give me that BS about "not everyone can do what they want to do." It's true in a sense, but it shouldn't discourage anyone, especially when it comes to music! I know there are many incredible, fucking talented guitarists out there who are unheard of because they don't have the money to be involved in the "professional" environment. Most of these people have very little interest in becoming a "professional mixer/engineer/producer".... they just want to put out their music (their ART!) on a pro level, not steal your jobs away from you!

As much as I love high quality audio and productions, I love music more, and the more great music available, the happier I am.

 

[Josh Burgess]

That's something which has come up before.

So many of these kids are using all stolen software, and very entry-level gear, so their overheads are immensely small and they can as a result charge very little for their services.

Once they get to a point where they consider moving out of home or going 'legit' it becomes evident that their process isn't self-sustaining. But it's too late, once that realization is made and they hike their prices, a new wave of bedroom kids has jumped up to take their place.

That's some cyclical industry self-destruction right there.

Reading the rest of your post, I'm not really sure where we disagree. You seem to have come to terms with the sad reality of the status quo, whereas I'm still struggling with the implications it will have further down the track.

Engineering, as a trade, will get diminished. Those who in the past learned by assisting great engineers, will now learn from academic students of yester-year. One generation of bedroom producers teaching the other. It seems inevitable that the craft itself will suffer on a wide scale. Naturally the kids won't care, as they won't have ever had exposure to anything else, and the awesome uber-tiny portable iPod earphones of the future will naturally have 30% THD so anything resembling fidelity will get crushed right out regardless, and Slate will be the richest man on the planet.

If you have superior skills/equipment/knowledge/etc. to that of the bedroom warriors, then you should be able to show it. If what you have to offer is honestly superior than what the bedroom warriors have to offer, then you shouldn't be concerned with what they do, because they aren't affecting you in any way. However, if they are starting to affect bigger, more professional guys, then it's time for the bigger, more professional guys to step up their game and prove why they are the professionals.

 

[Metaltastic]

Gotta +1 Josh

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Now I'm confused. I don't know if I'm an audio engineer student, part-time audio engineer, bedroom warrior or a fraud :O

The Nordström interview was entertaining and informative none the less, though the interviewer sounded like a bit of a douche to me.

 

[The Unavoidable]

I just say "I record stuff", when asked about it. Well, I don't say that but the what I do say doesn't really translate well.

I try not to judge anyone, other than for my own amusement, and just let people fuck around and do whatever they feel like.


Though I do get kinda offended when someone offers to mix my stuff, and when I ask them what kind of monitors they are using they say "I just use the speakers from my stereo. I had a couple of monitors, but the speakers sounded better so I sold them" (true story)

 

[Josh Burgess]

I just say "I record stuff", when asked about it. Well, I don't say that but the what I do say doesn't really translate well.

I try not to judge anyone, other than for my own amusement, and just let people fuck around and do whatever they feel like.


Though I do get kinda offended when someone offers to mix my stuff, and when I ask them what kind of monitors they are using they say "I just use the speakers from my stereo. I had a couple of monitors, but the speakers sounded better so I sold them" (true story)

It'd probably be better to ask them for examples of their previous work, don't you think? The end results are what matters.... not what tools it took to get there...

 

[The Unavoidable]

Apparently not, if one where to believe this thread.


But the point in asking wasn't to test his gear or anything, he was a complete tool anyway and I didn't like any of his mixes I had heard previously. I just asked him about his listening setup becuse I was curious. Anyway it was just a pointless anecdote, I didn't intend for it to relate to anything discussed here.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

some of you guys are getting me wrong...I'm not saying it's bad to do what you love and give your best using the possibilities you've got.
I'm ONLY complaingíng about people who are really just starting without anything but pretend they run a big professional studio.
I especially remember this one guy from the forum (I don't wanna mention any names), whom's questions clearly show that he doesn't know ANYTHING about the basics, yet even his handle is the name of his "studio", he's running a myspace page and offering high quality pro work....
with sentences like "There is optional professional digital mastering to offer that will
make your CD almost as loud as almost any commercialized cd.
" which even show in themselves that the person doesn't even know what mastering (in this case) is...and yet he's offering "professional mastering"....
that is what's ticking me of.

I'm not wrinting on my page "I'm using an SSL4000", cause it's just not true....these bedroom warriors really tell the bands they're as good and can release a professional result when really they can't...you think that helps bands or the music industry?

again, I've NOTHING against all the people using ampsims, bedrooms etc to persue their hobby...that's how most of us started out (well, with 4 track recorders in my case...but similar thing)...I wouldn't dare talking down to those guys..
I'm really ONLY complaining about those people who have not even enough knowledge to judge whether their DFH+POD mixed are better or worse than other peoples mixes....
it's a skill you have to develop, you have to train your ear (show a beginner of guitarplaying a fender and a keiper strat, and he won't hear a difference!).
the only thing that's really pissing me off is that those guys contact bands and blatantly lie by telling them they can release professional results....
I know, the results speak for themselves, I'm not worried about the competition or so, I'm just annoyed that whenever a band walks in at least one of the members says "my buddy has got a studio too, he's using SX3 and would mix the whole album for 200$...he also has got the great waves plugs, so his mixes will sound as good as the ones from the big guys"...I'm just tired of explaining them over and over again what the difference is...usually I just send them home/to heir buddy...they'll be crawling back a couple of weeks later....

nah, really, I'm not talking about most of the guys here on the forum, my rant is only directed towards the ones that are at the VERY beginning yet try to sell their stuff as professional studio work..
slash: I know I can't do anything about it, but I'm still allowed to be annoyed about it

to the guy I've used as an example: sorry I've just picked you, but you were the first who came to my mind.....and I've told you earlier that you won't make much friends here pretending you run a pro studio

 

[Josh Burgess]

Apparently not, if one where to believe this thread.


But the point in asking wasn't to test his gear or anything, he was a complete tool anyway and I didn't like any of his mixes I had heard previously. I just asked him about his listening setup becuse I was curious. Anyway it was just a pointless anecdote, I didn't intend for it to relate to anything discussed here.

Yeah, true. I only said anything because I know there are guys here who only mix on headphones or certain other less than desirable sources and still end up with great mixes.

 

[Josh Burgess]

some of you guys are getting me wrong...I'm not saying it's bad to do what you love and give your best using the possibilities you've got.
I'm ONLY complaingíng about people who are really just starting without anything but pretend they run a big professional studio.
I especially remember this one guy from the forum (I don't wanna mention any names), whom's questions clearly show that he doesn't know ANYTHING about the basics, yet even his handle is the name of his "studio", he's running a myspace page and offering high quality pro work....
with sentences like "There is optional professional digital mastering to offer that will
make your CD almost as loud as almost any commercialized cd.
" which even show in themselves that the person doesn't even know what mastering (in this case) is...and yet he's offering "professional mastering"....
that is what's ticking me of.

I'm not wrinting on my page "I'm using an SSL4000", cause it's just not true....these bedroom warriors really tell the bands they're as good and can release a professional result when really they can't...you think that helps bands or the music industry?

again, I've NOTHING against all the people using ampsims, bedrooms etc to persue their hobby...that's how most of us started out (well, with 4 track recorders in my case...but similar thing)...I wouldn't dare talking down to those guys..
I'm really ONLY complaining about those people who have not even enough knowledge to judge whether their DFH+POD mixed are better or worse than other peoples mixes....
it's a skill you have to develop, you have to train your ear (show a beginner of guitarplaying a fender and a keiper strat, and he won't hear a difference!).
the only thing that's really pissing me off is that those guys contact bands and blatantly lie by telling them they can release professional results....
I know, the results speak for themselves, I'm not worried about the competition or so, I'm just annoyed that whenever a band walks in at least one of the members says "my buddy has got a studio too, he's using SX3 and would mix the whole album for 200$...he also has got the great waves plugs, so his mixes will sound as good as the ones from the big guys"...I'm just tired of explaining them over and over again what the difference is...usually I just send them home/to heir buddy...they'll be crawling back a couple of weeks later....

nah, really, I'm not talking about most of the guys here on the forum, my rant is only directed towards the ones that are at the VERY beginning yet try to sell their stuff as professional studio work..
slash: I know I can't do anything about it, but I'm still allowed to be annoyed about it

to the guy I've used as an example: sorry I've just picked you, but you were the first who came to my mind.....and I've told you earlier that you won't make much friends here pretending you run a pro studio

I understand what you're saying, but you shouldn't let that bother you. Anybody who takes those guys seriously is going to A. be really disappointed with the results (most likely this is what will happen) or B. be happy with the results, because they don't know any better (it's possible, and if this is true, they most likely wouldn't be spending much on a better mix in the first place) or C. be happy with the results, because the person that did the mix for them genuinely knows what he's doing and can do a lot with a little (this is rare, but there are guys like this out there).

I was more talking about how people badmouth the "bedroom warriors" who use less than perfect equipment or use amp sims/program drums/etc., when we all know great things are possible still. The obvious example on a big level would be Joey Sturgis... sure, everyone loves to hate on the POD, but he shows what can be done with some real skill and good ears. Good examples of "bedroom warriors" on a smaller level on here would be guys like Splatt88 or Ryan (Catharsis) or Misha (Bulb)... not always optimal gear, but talented dudes who can put out great sounding mixes whether it be with real amps or amp sims and impulse responses or a POD or programmed drums... whatever. I think some of the bigger guys don't like what these kind of guys are capable of, and the rest of us are inspired by them, because we see just how pro sounding mixes can be with less than the best possible equipment.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

yep, I wouldn't deny that...
Splat88 for example does awesome stuff....I'm not saying gear=talent (there are plenty of examples prooving the opposite ).

I think eventually it'll sort itself out....those "imposters" I was talking about earlier wouldn't be able to record a full band (other than bore-core with programmed drums), so they'll not be able to compete on the market anyway.
I'm not really worried...just a bit annoyed..and that's more my internet-self than me

 

[Metaltastic]

I understand what you're saying, but you shouldn't let that bother you. Anybody who takes those guys seriously is going to A. be really disappointed with the results (most likely this is what will happen) or B. be happy with the results, because they don't know any better (it's possible, and if this is true, they most likely wouldn't be spending much on a better mix in the first place) or C. be happy with the results, because the person that did the mix for them genuinely knows what he's doing and can do a lot with a little (this is rare, but there are guys like this out there).

I was more talking about how people badmouth the "bedroom warriors" who use less than perfect equipment or use amp sims/program drums/etc., when we all know great things are possible still. The obvious example on a big level would be Joey Sturgis... sure, everyone loves to hate on the POD, but he shows what can be done with some real skill and good ears. Good examples of "bedroom warriors" on a smaller level on here would be guys like Splatt88 or Ryan (Catharsis) or Misha (Bulb)... not always optimal gear, but talented dudes who can put out great sounding mixes whether it be with real amps or amp sims and impulse responses or a POD or programmed drums... whatever. I think some of the bigger guys don't like what these kind of guys are capable of, and the rest of us are inspired by them, because we see just how pro sounding mixes can be with less than the best possible equipment.

I've agreed with you more than pretty much anyone else in this thread so far dude, but I just wanna mention that, at least on this forum, I don't recall seeing anyone badmouth people using cheap stuff simply because it's cheap stuff (thus making such rants as the one posted by Lodge pretty irrelevant IMO); maybe on Gearslutz or something, but I always liked this place because of the general acknowledgment that a lot can be made with a little in the right hands

 

[Josh Burgess]

I've agreed with you more than pretty much anyone else in this thread so far dude, but I just wanna mention that, at least on this forum, I don't recall seeing anyone badmouth people using cheap stuff simply because it's cheap stuff (thus making such rants as the one posted by Lodge pretty irrelevant IMO); maybe on Gearslutz or something, but I always liked this place because of the general acknowledgment that a lot can be made with a little in the right hands

Oh, no, I didn't mean that that's what I usually see on this forum. I just meant that some people in this thread were kinda acting like that.... and I think it's because they feel like those guys are hurting the business of bigger, more professional guys (possibly themselves).

For the most part, everyone on here is cool and usually has a good attitude and I've learned a lot since I started hanging around here. Some dudes on here have egos, but I guess we all do to some degree.