differences between U.S. and European metal

[Prog_Please]

There may be some bad American metal bands that are in it for the money, but do remember both ISIS and Dream Theater are American. Both bands have created new (and amazing) sounds in the metal scene.

Yet again, I'm sure most of you are fans of the Thrash / Death / Doom metal scene where I have little experience (except Opeth and Ahab are both amazing bands too, but *gasp* they're European).

 

[Hubster]

hubster is fucking funny

Theres good metal everywhere

like a mouse to bait mate, can't help myself, you know me

... there aren't too many cultures that have remained "true to their roots" on a huge scale. They may be more aware of their culture's history and they may do more than just have an annual parade, but outside of "native" cultures, there aren't too many who have remained the same throughout the ages. Cultures move on and progress or evolve...whether or not they evolve into something of value is a different topic. but I guess the crux of what I'm saying is, America does have a "cultural history", it's just not the same kind of mythical born culture of many European countries, and that this difference is difficult to apply to metal.

...imo *cough*

Agreed, and well said, although as far as America's cultural history goes, I don't find it has much at all in comparison to Europe (consider, I'm applying this statement strongly in regards to art, music inclusive, and also with religion in mind as religion is the single biggest influence on music throughout the ages - it is also Europe in which this influence is so dominant and in some cases, continues to be).

 

[ramses]

ummm.....SLAYERRRRRRRRRR!

 

[MasterOLightning]

Well, people can say that the US sucks because it doesn't have x,y, and z, so the music must be bad. Blah blah blah. Europe is so great because there's so much history and art and culture, blah blah.

Europe and the US have been relevant producers of metal music because they have affluence and free time. There are plenty of places in the world that have a wealth of art and culture, but if they don't have guitars, let alone money to buy them, let alone time to play them, well...nothing comes out of it.

Say what you will about multicultural values, but it's hard to argue against them in terms of music. All cultures are capable of great musical efforts. Even those lowly Americans came up with jazz, after all. Too many people are still trapped in cultural imperialism mode. American culture is not Euro culture. But is metal not better off for that fact?

I suppose the above does not address the original question too much. I pretty much agree with that analysis. I don't feel as comfortable making wild claims about places I don't know that much about as some here do.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Britian? No thanks. (The rest of) Europe? Hell yes. The US and Canada? Hell yes.

Personally I don't see why you guys want an emphasis on culture. I think it's amazing how some bands like Nokturnal Mortum use their ancient culture, but beyond that I have no love or need for it. The world today is what I care about. If I want an art class, I'll take an art class. If I want quality, artistic metal, I'll go to the best musicians, not the people with the richest heritage of fancy things.

British metal is good too, just not as good IMO.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Britain owns the rest of the world musically in general, tbh. At least 90% of the best classic rock/metal bands come from there. The U.S. has an edge on hard rock and thrash metal, and Scandinavia on melodic and extreme metal, but British artists pioneered (or contributed greatly to) most of these genres anyway. They may not be at the forefront of metal today, but their role in metal was astronomical in the '70s and '80s.

 

[Hubster]

Britian? No thanks. (The rest of) Europe? Hell yes. The US and Canada? Hell yes.

Personally I don't see why you guys want an emphasis on culture. I think it's amazing how some bands like Nokturnal Mortum use their ancient culture, but beyond that I have no love or need for it. The world today is what I care about. If I want an art class, I'll take an art class. If I want quality, artistic metal, I'll go to the best musicians, not the people with the richest heritage of fancy things.

British metal is good too, just not as good IMO.

I think you've misread - culture is referenced in this thread as an influence, not as a primary sub-expression of the music.

As for British metal, well think on this: without it, you wouldn't have much of what metal is today. Led Zeppelin/Judas Priest/Iron Maiden/Venom and a host of other bands have forged what you take for granted in 2008. British and European metal are equally as important. American is as well, certainly as far as thrash goes, but otherwise, not really imo.

EDIT: totally agree with vihris-gari as well.

 

[skeptik]

Notice that all of those bands, plus the more important Black Sabbath came from cultural wastelands aside from Iron Maiden, namely Birmingham and Newcastle. I do not find that the particularly pioneering bands of early Metal that have come out of Europe cared much for 'culture' (depending on how you use such an amorphous term) outside of, not surprisingly, Iron Maiden.

America is the birthplace of Thrash and Death Metal and the incubator of Doom Metal and Heavy/Power/Speed Metal.

 

[Zephyrus]

If you count out all the crap bands, which both continents have plenty of, I'd say it breaks even. USBM was the equalizer in this assessment, of course.

 

[Hubster]

I have to disagree, and no, thats not based on my usual anti-US garbage either. USBM is a non-factor on a global scale. No one from Europe cares about it, and 90% of it is quite forgettable.

 

[skeptik]

You disagree because all you listen to is Black Metal.

 

[Hubster]

The only reason you're disagreeing is because you're being a whiney patriotic pustule. STFU already. Black Metal is my dominant metal interest.

 

[Zephyrus]

No one from Europe cares about it..

Why don't you let them speak for themselves? Oh I know why, because they'll prove you wrong.

 

[Hubster]

I love how you guys can't handle any criticism of music from your own country, and you take the bait each & every time. It's seriously funny, you guys really get your knickers in a knot over it

 

[skeptik]

The only reason you're disagreeing is because you're being a whiney patriotic pustule. STFU already. Black Metal is my dominant metal interest.

If you think I'm "patriotic," then you're a fucking idiot. Even if you didn't think that you would still be a fucking idiot based on the ignorant crap you constantly spew on topics such as these. I don't object to what you say because of some kind of blind patriotism, I object to what you say because it's spawned from ignorance and intolerance of 'American' culture as it is perceived by the outside world, not realizing just how similar most civilized nations are in following the same model. I'm disagreeing because what you're saying is fucking stupid. I hold no particular affinity for this country, but I'm also not going go on rants about how bad it is when I live in a country that sociopolitically is as equally repugnant.

As far as the last comment goes, I was obviously only referring to Metal. I believe you once claimed a thorough distaste for Death Metal, so it's really no surprise that you wouldn't respect or care for or know much about the overwhelming importance that the US had in forming, establishing, and solidifying the genre. Ditto with Traditional/Power Metal. My claim is that your blanket rejection of US Metal as a viable entity is based more on your particular tastes in music which largely ignores much of what US Metal is known for. This isn't about 'not being able to handle criticisms', as if not liking US Metal shines a bad light on myself personally, it's just that what you say sometimes is really stupid and obnoxious and untrue, and that annoys me. You can have all of the stupid opinions that I disagree with that you want, as long as they're based on reality and not twisted rhetoric.

 

[Hubster]

Okay... In all seriousness - I can agree with the American importance of Death Metal, there is no denying the input there, same goes with Thrash Metal. FYI I do not have much in the way of a blanket rejection for US metal as I do perhaps for a blanket rejection of America's contribution to creative expression across all mediums throughout the ages to the current day.

As for the rest, for once I will back down. I'm getting soft in my old age.

 

[waif]

I'm going to ignore the arguments that have broken out, partially because I'm lazy and partially because I just don't want to get into it.

Just went to the New England Metalfest and it reminded me how much I dislike the American metal scene, especially metalcore.

The music tends to be more aggressive and simplistic - not that they aren't technical, but that they don't try to do anything ambitious with the music - songs tend to be short and formulaic. A perfect example of this is Shadows Fall. I like them, but they're kinda unimaginative. They never try to say anything with their lyrics or doing anything creative with the music. Bands like Opeth and Emperor don't really happen in America.
The music tends to be more breakdown-oriented, even outside of metalcore. The scene is more fueled by rage and substance abuse than Europe.

My opinion, anyways. This is heavily biased by my location - I've been exposed to a lot of the Boston metalcore scene. It may be different in other parts of the country. And obviously there are always bands that buck the trends I outlined.

 

[skeptik]

You obviously have no idea right now, but you're firmly squashed in a mouse trap, and I am pissing myself laughing while your face goes bright red

Yeah, I bet.

In all seriousness though - I can agree with the American importance of Death Metal, there is no denying the input there, same goes with Thrash Metal. FYI I do not have much in the way of a blanket rejection for US metal as I do perhaps for a blanket rejection of America's contribution to creative expression across all mediums throughout the ages to the current day.

It's comically unfair to compare a country with a 2 century long history with entire continents that have been around for millennia. For the duration of the existence of the US, the US has had as vibrant a cultural body (sans historical cultural, I'm speaking exclusively of new movements) as any other country. If you think that America has had little contribution to the global cultural network in the past 200 years, then I'd like to know what you think of England's cultural contributions of that same time frame, or any other country for that matter. When we're dealing with land masses who share radically different timelines, it's silly to hold one to a standard that was in place before it ever existed.

I contribute strongly the cause to this being a continuing lack of culture, and the glutonous nature for which your country is known so well for.

Maybe, for once, you can define what you mean by 'culture,' because by the definition of culture, this statement is bullshit. It sounds more like you're talking about class, manners, etiquette, etc. And gluttony is an imperial phenomenon, not a US phenomenon.

For the small few of you who don't like this aspect of your own nation, well, I feel sorry for you guys.

I would imagine that most people do, regardless of their participation in it, as nearly everyone in the world does (including you with your fancy-boy shirts).

However, I find it extremely arrogant of you to assume the other Westernised nations are following an "American" blueprint. It is more so the capitalist model itself, not Americanism i.e. your culture

Most civilized nations have adopted elements of the 'American' model of global capitalism, whether you want to believe that or not. Capitalism today is not Capitalism, but rather American capitalism. If the world were truly running on the orthodox Capitalist model, it would be different.

(if I could even call it that)

LULZIKINS

which despite your paradoxic statement above, is something the other Western countries have little admiration for.

Maybe not admiration, but they've certainly not objected to benefiting from the system. I wouldn't say that America 'admires' its own commercial nature either. It's not really something that is relevant to admiration.

Edit: Nevermind then...

 

[Hubster]

Bands like Opeth and Emperor don't really happen in America. The music tends to be more breakdown-oriented, even outside of metalcore. The scene is more fueled by rage and substance abuse than Europe.

This is a fantastic point. I think it's also one of the reasons I *generally* (not absolutely though) find American extreme music unappealing. It *is* very angry, but its a different kind of angry, it's real rage and really quite negative.

Mind you, I guess look at Finland. The most depressive funeral doom comes from there, yet it holds a sense of romanticism, something I find really appealing in music as a whole, but I don't find that the US offers much at all in terms of romanticism. I guess it is possible that this has to do with the find of issues many of the musicians are faced with in their daily lives, and I know that a number of young people in the US do have some tough issues to deal with. Perhaps this is a contributor.

I'm not sure if anyone would agree with this, but here goes. I find, generally, metal from Europe *is* more romantic. With the US, anger is the main characteristic (e.g. Pantera). What do you guys feel, if my idea here is true, is the cause of that anger from US music?

 

[Omni]

Ulver have stuck to their guns and defied the power of money. Hell, look at Lordi.

Even attempting to call Ulver's music since they stopped making black metal a sell-out has caused me to ignore the rest of your post.