differences between U.S. and European metal

[SouthernTrendkill]

I think you've misread - culture is referenced in this thread as an influence, not as a primary sub-expression of the music.

As for British metal, well think on this: without it, you wouldn't have much of what metal is today. Led Zeppelin/Judas Priest/Iron Maiden/Venom and a host of other bands have forged what you take for granted in 2008. British and European metal are equally as important. American is as well, certainly as far as thrash goes, but otherwise, not really imo.

Yes, I know that. I was talking about music I like, not music that was "important." For me, Britian was at the top during Classic Rock (Beatles, Floyd, Zep) although the US also had strong competition (Doors, Hendrix, Dylan). Since then though, all my favorite rock comes from the US and Canada, and all my favorite metal comes from the US or parts of Europe other than the UK.

 

[J.]

Even attempting to call Ulver's music since they stopped making black metal a sell-out has caused me to ignore the rest of your post.

Darn. And you're the person I was really trying to convince.

 

[Zephyrus]

If this argument was going on fifteen years ago, I'd say it'd be pretty even. However, America's current metal scene is too often speaking for this country's total contribution to metal's development. Like I said before, every country has its share of utter crap metal. The US appears to have the most of this. But it's due to more to population and media accessibility than to inherent musical quality.

Hubster is a prime example of how personal preference gets in the way of respect.

 

[J.]

This is a fantastic point. I think it's also one of the reasons I *generally* (not absolutely though) find American extreme music unappealing. It *is* very angry, but its a different kind of angry, it's real rage and really quite negative.

Mind you, I guess look at Finland. The most depressive funeral doom comes from there, yet it holds a sense of romanticism, something I find really appealing in music as a whole, but I don't find that the US offers much at all in terms of romanticism. I guess it is possible that this has to do with the find of issues many of the musicians are faced with in their daily lives, and I know that a number of young people in the US do have some tough issues to deal with. Perhaps this is a contributor.

I'm not sure if anyone would agree with this, but here goes. I find, generally, metal from Europe *is* more romantic. With the US, anger is the main characteristic (e.g. Pantera). What do you guys feel, if my idea here is true, is the cause of that anger from US music?

Rage sells. Look at the band that started it all: Korn. They were nothing but high school, jocks-picked-on-me rage. It all stems from them, though a lot of this metalcore (which lets not fool ourselves, really isnt metal at all, but fancied up hardcore) nonsense can be traced to Slaughter of the Soul (Sweden), which in and of itself is quite an angry album. They breakdown thing can somewhat be blamed on Chaos AD (Brazil).

As for romanticism, I can see your point, but you seriously need to try other genres as bands like Agalloch, WitTR, Novembers Doom, Morgion, not to mention Neurosis, whose latter material is Swans influenced.

America is not defined by metalcore, USBM, and jock metal. But that's all the detractors like to concentrate on.

 

[Einherjar86]

A big difference for me is the symphonic influence. From Europe you have Therion, Hollenthon, Limbonic Art, Obsidian Gate, Dimmu Borgir, Borknagar, Bal-Sagoth, I could go on...

Fortunately, Vesperian Sorrow seems to be trying to level the playing field. I hope others follow in their footsteps.

Also, while I enjoy lots of European power metal (mostly for the symphonic touches), US power metal definitely rocks with balls.

 

[Omni]

Darn. And you're the person I was really trying to convince.

Well, generally when you want to convince people of something, actually knowing what you're talking about is a good starting point.

For example, saying KoЯn started angry, rage-filled metal that would eventually become popular in the United States is basically denying that thrash metal and other fast, aggressive music didn't exist there in the 1980's and still continue to influence metal in the US today.

 

[rms]

This is a fantastic point. I think it's also one of the reasons I *generally* (not absolutely though) find American extreme music unappealing. It *is* very angry, but its a different kind of angry, it's real rage and really quite negative.

Mind you, I guess look at Finland. The most depressive funeral doom comes from there, yet it holds a sense of romanticism, something I find really appealing in music as a whole, but I don't find that the US offers much at all in terms of romanticism. I guess it is possible that this has to do with the find of issues many of the musicians are faced with in their daily lives, and I know that a number of young people in the US do have some tough issues to deal with. Perhaps this is a contributor.

I'm not sure if anyone would agree with this, but here goes. I find, generally, metal from Europe *is* more romantic. With the US, anger is the main characteristic (e.g. Pantera). What do you guys feel, if my idea here is true, is the cause of that anger from US music?

And metalcore isn't huge in Europe as well? Fucking retarded. It's even making it's way on major Festivals(like wacken). ANd saying how US metal is incredibly rage-ful but not counting a country like Norway with church burnings etc is rather mind blowing.

US is thrash with and without high pitched vocals imo, and Death metal. If you dont like these two, you're obviously going to like some other place.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Why don't you let them speak for themselves? Oh I know why, because they'll prove you wrong.

No we wouldn't. In the literally hundreds of black metal shows I've been to around Europa, I have never seen a Xasthur shirt, and the even greater amound of conversations I've had with metalheads, USBM have rarely even been breached as a subject, and always in distaste. Then again, I've only on the rarest of occasions spoken to anyone I've perceived to be younger than 25 years of age, but that probably doesn't help any.

The fact remains, USBM is completely and utterly superfluous as far as Europa is concerned.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I do not find that the particularly pioneering bands of early Metal that have come out of Europe cared much for 'culture' (depending on how you use such an amorphous term) outside of, not surprisingly, Iron Maiden.

Judas Priest?

 

[ramses]

And metalcore isn't huge in Europe as well? Fucking retarded. It's even making it's way on major Festivals(like wacken). ANd saying how US metal is incredibly rage-ful but not counting a country like Norway with church burnings etc is rather mind blowing.

US is thrash with and without high pitched vocals imo, and Death metal. If you dont like these two, you're obviously going to like some other place.

Sometimes, just because bands are in a festival, doesn't mean that they're there because of popularity, or demand. The record companies/management end up paying for their band to get put on the festival.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

And metalcore isn't huge in Europe as well? Fucking retarded. It's even making it's way on major Festivals(like wacken). ANd saying how US metal is incredibly rage-ful but not counting a country like Norway with church burnings etc is rather mind blowing.

US is thrash with and without high pitched vocals imo, and Death metal. If you dont like these two, you're obviously going to like some other place.

You missed the entire point about romanticism, though...

 

[unknown]

The fact remains, USBM is completely and utterly superfluous as far as Europa is concerned.

America is not defined by metalcore, USBM, and jock metal. But that's all the detractors like to concentrate on.

.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Fuck USBM haters. There is no logical reason to consider USBM superfluous unless you've heard Kult ov Azazel or something and think they are the only thing coming from here. Fuck off nowadays country elitists.

 

[Omni]

People who hate USBM solely because it's USBM are hilarious. Sure, there's some absolute crap bands from the US, but there's absolute crap bands from every other country that has black metal bands, too.

 

[MasterOLightning]

For example, saying KoЯn started angry, rage-filled metal that would eventually become popular in the United States is basically denying that thrash metal and other fast, aggressive music didn't exist there in the 1980's and still continue to influence metal in the US today.

You really think there's a lot of anger in '80s metal? It was fast and aggressive, but that's not a direct link to being angry and rage-filled. There was plenty of fun and sarcastic humor in bands like Megadeth, Anthrax and others.

Regarding USBM, the output compares pretty favorably to most nations in the post-1996 period. Even if you think Xasthur, Velvet Cacoon and Nachtmystium suck there's still Averse Sefira, Demoncy, Profanatica, Krieg, and the other bands the ANUS crowd points to.

 

[Hubster]

Actually its because USBM for the most part is utter tryhard SHIT, a cheap, bad watercolour of the real thing.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Fucking cry about it. I bet you've heard one of the new Xasthur albums or maybe Judas Iscariot (or maybe if you're SUPER KVLT, the aforementioned KVLT OV AZAZEL) in order to make this retarded judgment. Do you really think that "the real thing" has much relevance in modern black metal anymore? Norwegian bands haven't really done a damn thing good in a decade.

 

[Omni]

Actually its because USBM for the most part is utter tryhard SHIT, a cheap, bad watercolour of the real thing.

But...but I like watercolours. I also enjoy fingerpainting.

This argument is pointless, and V5 is right about Norway.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Fucking cry about it. I bet you've heard one of the new Xasthur albums or maybe Judas Iscariot (or maybe if you're SUPER KVLT, the aforementioned KVLT OV AZAZEL) in order to make this retarded judgment. Do you really think that "the real thing" has much relevance in modern black metal anymore? Norwegian bands haven't really done a damn thing good in a decade.

Nope, maybe not, but neither do we pretend to. Black metal is dead, remember?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

No it's not, stop being such a wimpy, crotchety old man