differences between U.S. and European metal

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I am sick of talking to you about this because all you do is whine and make shitty points (yeah newer Darkthrone is steeped in "culture" certainly they don't think of culture as you do then).

Who fucking CARES about significance? Significance is usually more of a hindsight (decades sometimes) realization and I don't think USBM has had time or developed enough to truly make something with any kind of modern significance, but there is plain ol' good USBM -- you know, the reason why we are on this site. Music. We enjoy listening to it because it's good/we like it. Not JUST because it is significant or culturally adept.

 

[Hubster]

Zeph, how many interviews with European Black Metal bands have you read that cite the American scene with any credibility? I can think of NONE. Yet look at the American interviews and see how many cite Europe. There's your proof.

I am sick of talking to you about this because all you do is whine and make shitty points (yeah newer Darkthrone is steeped in "culture" certainly they don't think of culture as you do then).

I never said newer Darkthrone was steeped in culture. Quote my quote properly.

Who fucking CARES about significance? Significance is usually more of a hindsight (decades sometimes) realization and I don't think USBM has had time or developed enough to truly make something with any kind of modern significance, but there is plain ol' good USBM -- you know, the reason why we are on this site. Music. We enjoy listening to it because it's good/we like it. Not JUST because it is significant or culturally adept.

Actually, for some of us, significance and culture do matter greatly. Our appreciation of music goes beyond the nature of simply tapping the foot to the song, and goes into the expression of things beyond the music itself.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Quorthon was a pretty huge fan of Metallica and KISS, tbh. He covered at least one KISS song, and incorporated a few of Metallica's ideas into his viking metal.

And of course, concerning black metal in general, there's always the clown makeup.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

So because European black metal came first, US bands can't play it right? That's pretty retarded logic. European bands can't cite USBM bands as influential (or usually just don't) because the US doesn't have very many "classic" influential works because it simply has not developed enough. Still, there are bands who play competent material here, and certainly not all of it is of the Filosofem-aping variety (and I'm sure plenty of bands NOT from the US are guilty of this!).

And I know you didn't say Darkthrone is currently culturally apt, but you did imply that culture is one of the things that makes "good" black metal stand out, and also cited FOAD/NWOBHM as good modern things to come out of Norway, so I just made the implied connection.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

Says the fellow from Oslo.

But how many places in Europe have you had these conversations? It makes sense that a Norwegian would consider USBM inferior, but can you speak for other countries that set up Black Metal scenes at the same time as the US?

I've been to several shows in France and Germany, mostly, but also in Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Belgium and Switzerland. I also went to Finland for a Reverend Bizarre gig not long ago, and they were even more puritanical than your average (my generation) Norwegian!

I really like Weltmacht - And to Every Beast Its Prey, though... duduuudu

 

[Zephyrus]

Zeph, how many interviews with European Black Metal bands have you read that cite the American scene with any credibility? I can think of NONE. Yet look at the American interviews and see how many cite Europe. There's your proof.

That European Black Metal is superior? Of course it fucking is. BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. Just because something exists that is inferior to something else of its kind means it should be completely devalued? That's the rationale Hitler had.

 

[Zephyrus]

I've been to several shows in France and Germany, mostly, but also in Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Belgium and Switzerland. I also went to Finland for a Reverend Bizarre gig not long ago, and they were even more puritanical than your average (my generation) Norwegian!

I really like Weltmacht - And to Every Beast Its Prey, though... duduuudu

Hmm....

It could be that American (gasp) Black Metal fans are more open-minded because they feel like they're on the outside looking in.

 

[Alter]

Of course it is, because it IS correct. Better reasoning is this stinking turd:



Right so FOAD is shit, NWOBHM (EP) is shit, Hordaland Doedskvad is shit, and the list can go on. Even a sub-par Norsk Black Metal band like Gjenferdsel surpasses any lacklustre impostor garbage Leviathan or Xasthur will be putting out any time soon. The thing the US knows how to do is to copy Filosofem, period, except maybe adding their own "little original touch" of gain on steroids.

Tell me, legitimately, aside from Dead As Dreams, what can the US truly claim has been significant in Black Metal in comparison to not only Norsk Black Metal, but European Black Metal? Even Darkestrah, while not hugely popular, have created their last two works which are steeped in culture and true feeling unlike countless USBM releases before and after.

Leviathan is playing a totally different breed of black metal than early 90's black metal. Your an idiot if you think that no USBM band is doing anything different at all.

If anything there are a lot of uninteresting, pseudo-unique bands from Europe like Lifelover, Amesoeurs and Alcest.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I haven't heard Weltmacht but the general opinion of gents on M-A is that it is basically Judas Iscariot only a little weaker...CV, why do you like that but not other USBM?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Actually, for some of us, significance and culture do matter greatly. Our appreciation of music goes beyond the nature of simply tapping the foot to the song, and goes into the expression of things beyond the music itself.

On this note, I suggest you listen to some of the bigger American classic rock bands (i.e. the Doors, Steely Dan, the Grateful Dead, Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper, etc.), and then tell me if you still think American music expresses nothing beyond "the music itself". This whole "the U.S. has no culture, therefore it can't make meaningful/romantic music" argument is quite frankly full of shit.

 

[Hubster]

So because European black metal came first, US bands can't play it right? That's pretty retarded logic. European bands can't cite USBM bands as influential (or usually just don't) because the US doesn't have very many "classic" influential works because it simply has not developed enough.

Exactly, yet for reasons which I believe are beyond this fact that you yourself have just admitted in the quote above, US black metal fans (definitely on this board) seem blindly patriotic about a scene which is incredibly immature with it's output and clearly an inferior subtype in relation to Europe. The reaction of musicians in Europe as well as the fans clearly proves this.

Don't get me wrong - I can totally understand being proud of your scene. I love the Aussie postrock scene and think its great, but am I about the say its equal to Japan's & the US's and deserves the same amount of praise? No. You respect your roots.

In defence of the US though, death and thrash metal, hardly anyone does it better and we all know that.

 

[Hubster]

On this note, I suggest you listen to some of the bigger American classic rock bands (i.e. the Doors, Steely Dan, the Grateful Dead, Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper, etc.), and then tell me if you still think American music expresses nothing beyond "the music itself". This whole "the U.S. has no culture, therefore it can't make meaningful/romantic music" argument is quite frankly not true.

I'm not saying that American music has NEVER succeeded as an artistic expression, I'm saying that for the most part, it hasn't. There are exceptions of course, but in terms of our current climate I feel that a huge majority of American music that I know of is failing quite terribly.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I haven't heard Weltmacht but the general opinion of gents on M-A is that it is basically Judas Iscariot only a little weaker...CV, why do you like that but not other USBM?

It has awesome riffs and awesome vocals, no pretentions as to its place within the black metal pantheon, and I can bang my head to it. It is absolutely nothing like Judas Iscariot what-so-fucking-ever. It's Akhenaten's attempt at Mayhem worship, rather than Darkthrone worship.

 

[Hubster]

Leviathan is playing a totally different breed of black metal than early 90's black metal. Your an idiot if you think that no USBM band is doing anything different at all.

And you're an ever bigger idiot for not realising that Xasthur is Filosofem worship on steroids with bordering on abstract production. I am well aware of what you describe, probably more so than you are.

 

[Alter]

And you're an ever bigger idiot for not realising that Xasthur is Filosofem worship on steroids with bordering on abstract production. I am well aware of what you describe, probably more so than you are.

I did not say anything about Xasthur. Seems you do not know how to quote properly.

 

[Omni]

Even a sub-par Norsk Black Metal band like Gjenferdsel surpasses any lacklustre impostor garbage Leviathan or Xasthur will be putting out any time soon.

I just learned that Xasthur and Leviathan are the only USBM groups. Also, Leviathan doesn't sound much like Filosofem at all, so maybe your point isn't as valid as you think.

 

[Zephyrus]

And you're an ever bigger idiot for not realising that Xasthur is Filosofem worship on steroids with bordering on abstract production. I am well aware of what you describe, probably more so than you are.

Even if it was mostly Burzum worship, does that automatically mean it will be bad? A band can be influential yet it shouldn't influence any newer bands? You've got it all wrong, MATE.

 

[Alter]

Plus, Xasthur takes the basic Burzum idea and blows it into a whole different breed of black metal. Malefic creates some seriously abstract stuff which differs from Varg's work in a much different fashion.

 

[Zephyrus]

Plus, Xasthur takes the basic Burzum idea and blows it into a whole different breed of black metal. Malefic creates some seriously abstract stuff which differs from Varg's work in a much different fashion.

You could say that Varg passed the torch for someone to continue evolving his formula, and Malefic did so profoundly.

 

[Omni]

So what band is Leviathan an impostor of anyway? It's definitely not Burzum.