DISSECTION frontman Jon Nödtveidt has committed suicide

[Opethian666]

I like how you state all of this as if it is fact. It's a theory that some people (like you) adhere to, and not a very popular one at that.

Obviously, most people adhere to pride, vanity, and arrogance. The thought of being "just a biochemical robot" is not a pleasant one. But like I said, if you do not believe in supernatural entities, it is against all logic and science to believe in free will. Free will is a useful illusion conjured by our body that has a purpose in making the body take into account all the information it has access too and centralise it so that an action can be made that is the best possible action when this information is combined with the organisms body structure. Without this illusion we could not function, but that doesn't change the fact that it IS an illusion, unless you come up with supernatural decision making entities that behave unpredictably and are not bound to the laws of physics.

 

[Opethian666]

What absolute twaddle.

You mean to say, it is impossible to stop urges? I guess there is no such thing as willpower then? I make choices ever single day, weighing up the pros and cons of doing ANYTHING.

Yes, that is the continuous refreshing of information that is centralised in your brain and makes you feel like you're taking a real decision, but in fact your body will always make the same "decision" when it receives the same input from its environment and has the same structure at a certain moment in time. If you are opposed to this, again, I challenge you to come up with a non-supernatural mechanism that allows biochemical matter to react differently under the same circumstances, at the schale of human decisions like this (I know about the Heisenberg uncertainty, but it would be ridiculous to propose this as a mechanism for huge schale choices like this).

I dont make decisions or take actions on "feeling" or primal urge (unless its to eat of take a shit or something basic).

That's also absolutely not what I'm saying. What you don't realise is that this consciousness of yours, which seems like it is a separate entity from your body, that is not bound by anything, is just an information intermediate of centralisation in your brain. It is a result of physical, chemical processes, and we all know that physical processes are bound by clear laws. Don't we?

There is such a thing as rational / logical thought. We have evolved thought patterns and consciousness, we have the ability to make choices.

And these thought patterns are not the result of physical processes, are they? Just because we are very complex organisms that have to perform some very complex actions that have to take into account incredible amounts of information that changes continuously, doesn't mean we have transcended the laws of physics.

You really did yourself a disservice making such a stupid comment there.

Just because you don't like my view, doesn't mean it is not correct. Why don't you look up the meaning of confirmation bias and intellectual honesty.

think about it kthx.

Why don't you think about it, because this post shows you clearly haven't.

 

[Opethian666]

Here is some interesting literature for those of you who are interested.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctytho/dfwVariousPereboom.htm

The question is not whether you are responsible for your actions, which you obviously are, but whether you are accountable for them.

 

[spigot]

As BLABBERMOUTH.NET exclusively reported earlier today, the surviving members of DISSECTION have now officially confirmed the death of the band's mainman, Jon Nödtveidt. The group's statement on the matter reads as follows:

"As rumours have started to spread we feel obliged to confirm Jon Nödtveidt's death.

"Jon Nödtveidt was a man who lived his life according to his convictions and True Will. A couple of days ago he chose to end his life by his own hands. As a true Satanist he led his life in the way he wanted and ended it when he felt that he had fulfilled his self-created destiny. Not everyone will have understanding or acceptance for his personal path in this life and beyond, but all must respect his choice.

"Those of us who have met him in his last days can assure that he was more focussed, happier and stronger than ever. It is our full conviction that he left this world of lies with a scornful laughter, knowing that he had fulfilled everything that he had set up for himself to accomplish. The empty space that he leaves behind will be filled with the dark essence that he manifested through his life and black-magical work. His legacy and Luciferian Fire will live on through those few who truly knew him and appreciated his work for what it really was and still is. As our brother's goal in life and death never was to 'Rest in Peace', we will instead wish him victories in all battles to come, until the Acosmic Destiny has been fulfilled.

"For the glory of the Dark Gods and the Wrathful Chaos! 218"

(Thanks: JE)

wow... reminds me of stuff off that emo faggot thread.

 

[illidurit]

opethian is right folks, unfortunately I don't see what it has to do with this thread

 

[metal_wrath]

wrong again...

 

[:Wreath:]

it's all beginning to sound like some sect talk...


Well Opethian666 fact is noone can prove you wrong just as you can't 100% justify your theory - the supernatural entity might as well be there y'know (not that I believe in it but that's a matter of opinion not knowledge). The bottom line is, there are some rules if society is to exist... If someone doesn't fulfil them and goes on a killing spree, be it a result of choice, fate, chemistry or because he's a fucking psycho, he falls out of society is definitly not missed by it...

Anyway, if there's no free will as you say then how come you're complaining about others who claim he should have died earlier? According to your theory, they have no other choice because chemistry and bad surroundings made them say that...

 

[metal_wrath]

if there is no free will, at least that explains Dream Theater...

 

[Opethian666]

Well Opethian666 fact is noone can prove you wrong just as you can't 100% justify your theory - the supernatural entity might as well be there y'know (not that I believe in it but that's a matter of opinion not knowledge). The bottom line is, there are some rules if society is to exist... If someone doesn't fulfil them and goes on a killing spree, be it a result of choice, fate, chemistry or because he's a fucking psycho, he falls out of society is definitly not missed by it...

Anyway, if there's no free will as you say then how come you're complaining about others who claim he should have died earlier? According to your theory, they have no other choice because chemistry and bad surroundings made them say that... of

Obviously, I agree with everything you say there. But the reason I was complaining was not to judge them for not realising this, but an attempt to make them change their mind about this and to try and make them realise judging others is good for nothing. What I am trying to do is changing their environmental stimuli by making these posts that they will read, and to alter some synaptic connections in their head because of this experience so that maybe next time a thread like this comes up, they will make a different decision and decide not to be judgemental and make hateful posts.
I doubt it will make a difference though, if you just look at the parallels between this and what I recall happened the bus driver thread. I don't know if it has been deleted but it might be interesting to compare them.

 

[Opethian666]

if there is no free will, at least that explains Dream Theater fans...

Corrected

 

[:Wreath:]

I think it got deleted

 

[NicholasDWolfwood]

Seker has it.

I'd feel bad about this if it had happened during his incarceration. After digesting Reinkaos, I think suicide is a positive development in regards to the big picture of Dissection's legacy.

In reply:

you insensitive dick!
how the hell is suicide positive

jon was a friend of mine and a sweet, funny, talented man with a beautiful girl friend and every thing to live for

the behemoth guys told me about this yesterday and last night i cryed my self sleep, today i just feel numb inside

i cant beleive ill never see him again

in stead of thinking about the legacy how bout sparing athought for this family and friends

Puts a semi-interesting spin on it imo, coming from somebody who knew him personally (she's a lighting designer or something)

 

[Alcapoth]

youre not a metalhead? do non-metalheads normally have 5 metal band logos as their signature?

by the way, im humbled by your tact and ability to not flame me back when i called you out for my perception of your insensitivity to the situation overall. which i still stand by, but i figured id give you credit where its due. but his musical importance is close to nothing in the bigger picture...especially compared to his drawbacks as a person and his choices...which his musicality is just a facet of really.

Eh, I couldn't flame ya back when the reaction was perfectly acceptable. I see where you were coming from and it was actually me who was just far out blinded by the greatness of Dissection's past musical career (imo, of course.) I'm neutral to this situation in a sense. But, I thought :Wreath: made a perfectly valid point here somewhere - where he stated that if it was my mother that was murdered I'd want nothing mnore but to see that man punished for the rest of his life. And yeah, that couldn't be more correct if that was the case. Basically, I'm not AS bothered as I would normally be as the person has no meaning in my life whatsoever. It's an awful situation where I feel no emotion towards (but it also does not mean it was ok for him to kill this person also.) Anyway, I guess that makes the difference in the end anyway.


I guess what I was trying to say all along is, that people are allowed to HATE him for his actions but also at least acknowledge the fact he brought alot to the metal scene, and it should not be poked fun of. It just kind of peeved me reading some of those posts.

In the end, whatever...the guy killed himself now. The end of it. Life goes on. My initial shock is wearing out now, anyway. It still will always amaze me had a second chance at life and he decided to throw it out the window.


And NFU, good point on my sigs lol. But, is Anathema even considered metal now? I know this is a metal forum and those ARE some of my fave bands ever, but generally, overall...metal isn't my most listened to genre. What got me into Opeth even for example wasn't the "metal" aspect of the band, but the rocking out parts as well as mellow passages within the song where the metal stuff just overall enhanced the song and made it better and more energetic where its due.


Alright, I'm done here now.


Oh crap, almost forgot. The person who posted that Jon was an accessory to the murder is something I have read somwhere as well. I was always actually pretty confused whether or not he actually DID pull the trigger on the victim.

 

[NFU]

i understand enjoying music of someone who is depraved otherwise. but that doesnt redeem them, thats all im saying. plenty of gifted, talented and important people have turned out to be less than ideal human beings. its not even a matter of HOW important jon was...any "musical" ability i dont think makes up for his actions. let alone a guy who wrote 2 underground metal albums 10+ years ago. how big of a deal is that in the grand scheme of life anyway? what is he contributing to? more anger/aggression/antisocial degenerate metalheads? forgive me if anyone doesnt fit that description, but its a valid point i think. jon didnt cure cancer and then go shoot somebody in the face...i think theres some perspective that metal fans need to have before they praise his "musical genius" anyway. i doubt many of those same people mad about jon dying even flinched at the late Syd Barrett's recent passing for instance. the man made 2 heavy metal records, then spent 1/3 of his life in prison for killing someone, only to make a shit album (yes, irrelevant, i know) when he was released and then kill himself. the whole thing is just a complete waste.

 

[Abhorsen]

That last sentence is key. What a waste indeed. It seems what is really in question here is whether or not one separates the artist from the art he or she creates. In some cases it can be difficult.

 

[worldwide_suicide]

i won't post anything else in regards to this since NFU has basically stolen those words from my mouth.

+1 @ NFU

 

[illidurit]

lots > dissection

 

[Death_To_False_Metal]

They didn't kill anybody but it's pretty common knowledge that geniusses musicians like Miles Davis and Budy Rich were complete assholes as human beings yet their impact on music was Huge !

 

[worldwide_suicide]

^yet none of them killed an innocent man

 

[illidurit]

attention: death to false metal is either oinkness or an equally obnoxious clone

he's not serious when he posts

ignore him plzkbai