Elementary school shooting
- Thread starter bryan_kilco
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Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
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We had an assault weapons ban from 1994 as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that prohibited the manufacturing (for civilian use) certain semi-automatic weapons classified as "assault weapons". The law also banned the manufacturing of large capacity magazines and limited capacity for civilian weapons at 10 rounds. This law only impacted items manufactured after the law was enacted so items made before Sept. 1994 could be freely sold/traded.
The law was only a 10 year ban and required re-authorization in 2004 which did not happen.
State by state gun laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)
In a large portion of states if you go to a licensed dealer you can purchase military grade semi-automatic weapons with the only requirement being a background check.
Here are the reasons you can be denied:
Read those and you will easily see that the vast majority of everyday citizens that apply will pass the background check. Sure it would seem that these background checks would catch the majority of hardened criminals or mentally unstable persons - but at least in the mental illness reason for denial you'll note the term "adjudicated", in other words you have to have been deemed mentally ill in a court of law which the majority of those suffering from mental illness have not.
So far so good - right?
Well - not so fast. the background check requirement only applies to firearm sales from licensed dealers. Sales from private individuals, while subject to varying levels of state regulations do not require a background check as long as they are in-state.
See this quote from the ATF site (note the bolded part - it essentially uses the honor code):
Also - we have these things called Gun Shows where the ATF statistics show that somewhere between 50% - 75% of sellers at are Federally Licensed Dealers, leaving the rest as unlicensed private sellers which creates what many refer to as the "gun show loophole" because they don;t have to perform the background checks that licensed dealers have to by law.
Once again note the bolded part - another reference to an essential honor code, with no requirement to record the sale also.
You want to know some of the individual state laws - see this article from yesterdays Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/16/the-6-craziest-state-gun-laws/
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
What kind of evidence do you need ?
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf
Is the Department of Justice document enough of an evidence for you ?
Check the "Defensive Gun Uses" chapter.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Don't kill us.
Go to the gym and punch a sandbag instead.
I am not psychopathic enough to travel to Poland just to shank the likes of you.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
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I am not psychopathic enough to travel to Poland just to shank the likes of you.
If Poland is too far for you in the UK, then it's really too far for me. Mutant - I suspect your safe. But then again, I am an American that does own a few guns so you never know.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
If Poland is too far for you in the UK, then it's really too far for me. Mutant - I suspect your safe. But then again, I am an American that does own a few guns so you never know.
If I wanted to kill Polish people, I could quite easily do that here in London!
EffigyForgotten
New Metal Member
I am not psychopathic enough to travel to Poland just to shank the likes of you.
Ill find you to put a drumstick up you're ass.
JHA
Member
- Apr 2, 2008
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I didn't see your solution either...? Can you answer the question presented to you by Glenn Fricker or why are you avoiding it?
Here's something to think about:
1. Ban (semi-)automatic weapons and assault rifles from civilians. This would have a huge impact but gun factories wouldn't be happy.
2. Only allow guns that can have max 2-3 or so bullets in the magazine without reloading for civilian use. By reloading I mean having to insert new ammo.
Too Fairy Land?
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
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Semi-automatic weapons will not be banned - even in the "assault weapon" ban that we had from 1994 - 2004 it did not outright ban all or even most semi-automatic firearms. The majority of handguns (which will probably never be banned in the USA) sold today are semi-automatics.
More than likely most efforts, outside of banning weapons classified as "assault weapons" using a similar definition as in the original ban which had a flowchart that essentially defined the characteristics of an "assault weapon" which did indeed include some semi-automatic firearms, will be mostly focused on magazine capacity and background checks. But even given this, if they did like the last ban and simply stopped new manufacturing and importation, grandfathering in currently owned weapons, there will still be a shit load of these weapons around (just certainly more expensive and maybe a bit harder to get).
Perhaps someday, but I cannot see, in our country's political climate and even given the extreme horror of these latest incidents, the US enacting anything as restrictive as say Australia's current classifications and limitations.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Actively and passively protect schools and mass gatherings.
It can't be that there is 1 or 2 attackers versus 0 defenders.
No i don't want teachers to walk with big guns in holsters like in wild west.
A single guard armed with a concealed non lethal weapon and dressed in a bullet proof jacket that doesnt look bullet proof would be enough to make a really big difference.
Thats the direct solution.
And indirect solution would be improving (or healing) the society by teaching young people how to live happy, positive lives - yes i mean a new subject just like mathematics or biology etc.
Promoting living in harmony and getting new friends, teaching that bullying the weak is not cool.
Yes i am serious and yes i know it won't be easy and will be a long process.
Which one ?
I thought i answered all questions.
1. How realistic is expecting politicians to make the current owners of such guns to give them up ? That would be the first step you would need to make if you wanted to clear the country of these guns. The party that would pass such law would be finished. Can't see how it could happen in todays USA.
2. That would require recalling almost all currently owned guns. Even less realistic than the above.
You are still stuck in thinking that law can disarm dangerous people.
Can you for a moment put yourself in a future mass killers shoes ?
Your main life goal is to shock the world by killing some innocent people and then to commit suicide, but there are laws that forbid you from having a weapon that you could use to do it.
What do you do ?
I can think up a lot of different options, some way more horrible than using a fully automatic weapon.
If you can get just one idea to circumvent that gun ban, then the ban is totally ineffective against these types of attacks.
And why pass a law that is not effective, just makes some of your potential electors angry at you ?
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
You're not taking into account the psychology behind the choice of weapon.
Killing with a knive is a lot different than just pulling a trigger from "afar". It's very rare (no facts here, just my knowledge from watching different documentations), that someone changes the "how to". Bomb builders are different guys than people who slay their whole family with a knife, that's what I took from it.
Building bombs is also not legal, plus getting the goods needed for building one of that size is also not an easy thing, as far as I understood it. Also most of the parts are traceable iirc.
And seriously, the avarage joy can FOR SURE cause a lot more fatalities with a semi-auto than with a knive, so comparing these 2 cases can be compared without a problem imo. I've lived with a Steyr AUG for a few months, and you have to be a fucking retard to not be able to figure out how get it to do BAM BAM. Even if you're not quick with reloading, you can take out a shitload of people before someone has the nuts to take you down. But for that case you can get another 3 semi-auto rifles for self defense and hunting, right, so that shouldn't be a problem. Just pull out the another one that is allready loaded! Even nutcases can do that, as we've seen allready often enough.
And even if they have trained and planned their amokrun with a knife long before, chances to get him down before he killed everyone are much higher than with a semi-auto.
And mutant, for your self defense reason against all the psychos out there and no police within 5 minutes:
Get a fucking door and windows that aren't completly useless and garbage, so you won't have the problem of someone intruding your home to begin with, if you really think the world is full of people only wanting your worst.
And for the gun on the streets in a shady neighborhood statement you gave to leSedna earlier: If there's someone who wants you dead to get what you have, he'll just shoot you from behind. No weapon prevents that.
And for torturing/raping/whatever sick fuck they want to do, there are also ways to tranquilize you from afar. Since you think that if someone really wants to do something, he'll plan and train so well, that he can go on a 27kill spree with a knive, getting stuff you need to put down elephants shouldn't be a problem too, right?
Seriously, most of the time I enjoyed your posts, but here you just seem to loose it a bit. Especially talking to people who a take my hat off for their reasoning. It's because of guys like Jind, that I don't like people generalizing "all amis are gun crazy cowboys".
edit: ah damn, didn't see that there was a page after that, so some of the stuff will be pretty retundant I guess
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
I do and i agree with you that it has an effect on a normal person.
The Batman guy.
All three last killers were smart enough to build an explosive device - they were no idiots.
As i already explained the legality of the choosen weapon is not relevant in such cases.
You are wrong here.
It is true that the ammonium nitrate is controlled (mostly just by adding other substances to it), but it is not the only type of a high explosive ingredient and there are a lot of different options.
If you want to get under the "Echelon" you can try Googling for recipes (for research only of course) if you are not a chem wizard.
You can also youtube for examples of stupid kids playing with things that go boom to see how powerful substances you can easily create.
55KG is still enough to carry ina big duffle bag.
You can't outlaw chemistry knowledge and base substances.
Yeah for sure he can and i already agreed that for a single mass killing a knife is a very dumb choice.
Yeah a 200 kilogram steel gate and 3 cm thick bars in windows.
It is not me who needs a firearm for home defense, because as i already wrote - most of the shady guys here are not a real threat to me even if the neighborhood borders with REALLY bad areas.
It is people who live in a country where people are a minority compared to guns - yes there are more guns than American citizens.
There is no need to complicate things - if you are old enough to be a man of the house, it is your responsibility to protect your family - you choose to do it with bare hands or run to the kitchen to grab a meat cleaver, but don't force others to make the same strange choices.
Did i ?
I said most criminals around here patrol at nights barehanded or only carrying knives and metal bars.
Right.
Some day i want to have a big happy family and every time something really ugly happens in this world i think to myself that such random thing could happen to my loved ones too (you can look up crime per 100000 stats in your city if you want to get a more scientific idea of how safe or unsafe you are).
This is an important topic to me, i simply don't want this world to be so fucked up when my little son or daughter comes to this plane of existence.
I am not discussing and sharing my views for anyones enjoyment.
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Fox Mulder
The Truth Is Out There
JHA
Member
- Apr 2, 2008
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Nothing. It would be too hard without guns. It's probably the main drive for mass killers to have all that massive gun arsenal, like in the Hollywood movies. They praise their ideal American life style of a modern day cowboy. The more guns the cooler they are. Also, I have no idea where one would buy an illegal gun here. I guess I'm lucky enough I don't know or hang out with any thugs like you do.
You are still stuck in thinking that everyone else should think like you and that your way is the only way. You put your hands on your ears and shut down in denial everytime someone has a different idea from yours.
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
I have the feeling were coming from 2 different directions towards this topic, cause I don't really get were you're heading
kaomao
Member
I don't know where you read this bullshit, but believe me over here it's always criminal with firearm killing another criminal, that's it.
Yeah we got a huge amount of deaths among criminals that's for sure.
I can't talk for the Swiss guys, but if I walk the streets over here I won't be so scared to be murdered by a criminal with firearm.
