Exclusive: DISSECTION Frontman JON NÖDTVEIDT Commits Suicide - Aug. 18, 2006

[KILL TULLY]

Your whole theory hinges on two very weak premises:
- that killing yourself is plain and simple the easy way out (edit: i should elaborate. it doesn't have to be a "way out" from any particular thing. even if it is an end to the pain of life, why should enduring unecessary suffering for the sake of family and friends be preferable to the alternative?)

I see that your morality is based on ego. That's fine, we differ. You think that ending your own suffering takes precedence over collective suffering. I disagree, I think that is selfish.

- that any emotion or feeling is a weakness

Are you even reading my posts? When did I even remotly hint at that?

Whatever, Tully and you lot can feel free to take comfort in your simple, monolithic explanation of a complex, individualistic issue as long as you wish. Doesn't make it any closer to reflecting what actually happens.

How are our views more simple then yours?

Explain to me your feelings on this out of the context of bashing my views. Just say why you feel that this is an act of strength.

 

[Demilich]

I see that your morality is based on ego. That's fine, we differ. You think that ending your own suffering takes precedence over collective suffering. I disagree, I think that is selfish... Explain to me your feelings on this out of the context of bashing my views. Just say why you feel that this is an act of strength.

I never said that suicide was definitively an act of strength. This is exactly what I'm arguing against. Suicide isn't an act of any one particular thing. In every case, as with everything else in the world, the reasons, motivations, circumstances, are completely different. You're the one trying to tell me what it IS about, I'm simply trying to instigate the expansion of your view from such a narrowminded understanding of an issue that goes far beyond simply being an act of weakness.

Are you even reading my posts? When did I even remotly hint at that?

Yeah I probably misunderstood you when you said this:

Also, it would take a very enlightened person to kill themeselves with no emotion or feeling present

I shouldn't have taken it to mean that you think anyone who makes the decision to kill themselves with any emotion involved was weak.

Edit: this is stupid, can we just stop? If you don't get it, you don't get it and I'm gonna give up trying to explain my view on this issue now.

 

[KILL TULLY]

The point is that someone could kill themselves right now without any fear or weakness involved.

I shouldn't have taken it to mean that you think anyone who makes the decision to kill themselves with any emotion involved was weak.

What the hell? Dude don't just go shitting all over and mixing up what I said.

You said that I said 'All emotions are weakness' not that 'All suicidel emotions are weak or fearfull'.

 

[Demilich]

Yeah well I guess I thought it was evident that the 2 bullet points i listed were in reference to this discussion and not your beliefs as a whole. Plus, I just acknowledged that I made a mistake and all you did was get even more offended. Just relax, dude.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Edit: this is stupid, can we just stop? If you don't get it, you don't get it and I'm gonna give up trying to explain my view on this issue now.

Not getting somthing is far different from disagreeing with somthing. Don't patronize me.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Yeah well I guess I thought it was evident that the 2 bullet points i listed were in reference to this discussion and not your beliefs as a whole. Plus, I just acknowledged that I made a mistake and all you did was get even more offended. Just relax, dude.

I thought it was obvious sarcasm on your part.

 

[Demilich]

You're taking me way too seriously here. Not patronizing you at all. I don't get the impression that you understand my point of view on this, and that is all I was saying.

I thought it was obvious sarcasm on your part.

if I do sarcasm on the internet i put some kind of emoticon to indicate it. sorry.

edit again: this is like that whole gay thing with Reign in Acai. except he put up a better argument

 

[lurch70]

man ... thank God Trey Azagtoth is into Anthony Robbins.

 

[dill_the_devil]

And Quake 3. Closest Trey's likely to get to suicide is tripping over one of his own grenades in a deathmatch.

 

[Necro Joe]

Suicide is never something done out of strength. If he was sure he was enlightened from his practice he would have lived to his natural end unless he was 'afraid' of something in life. We all die, he would have been no exception to this. I put afraid in quotes because it may not be explicit fear, it could be impatience, unknowing, longing, boredom, or any number of other things stemming from fear.

Do you not think that someone could still have these 'fearful' insecurities (as most people do) but choose to end his or her life because of some other overriding emotion or reason? If, for example, you used suicide as a way of asserting some measure of control over that which would normally be left to chance or circumstance? If you did not seek 'enlightenment' in life but only valued the things you have accomplished, and perceiving your 'work' at an end, decided that you would prefer to die from leaping off a cliff into the sea at 60 than wait until you're body starts to fall apart. I'm not sure anyone could truly be this clear headed about their own death but in theory I wouldn't see it as having much to do with impatience or wanting to 'escape' the world, but rather as wishing to face death on your own terms.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Do you not think that someone could still have these 'fearful' insecurities (as most people do) but choose to end his or her life because of some other overriding emotion or reason? If, for example, you used suicide as a way of asserting some measure of control over that which would normally be left to chance or circumstance? If you did not seek 'enlightenment' in life but only valued the things you have accomplished, and perceiving your 'work' at an end, decided that you would prefer to die from leaping off a cliff into the sea at 60 than wait until you're body starts to fall apart. I'm not sure anyone could truly be this clear headed about their own death but in theory I wouldn't see it as having much to do with impatience or wanting to 'escape' the world, but rather as wishing to face death on your own terms.

Yes, I can see how people would do a lot of things I disagree with.

 

[lurch70]

all I know is, if a near and dear friend of mine was preaching day in and day out the things I read about above coming from his bandmates ... well I would roll up a newspaper and proceed to beat him with it.
was everyone near to him just part of this? and eat this up day in and day out? ... but maybe he surrounded himself with very like minded people that fed the fire.

 

[Hell Mike]

Hails to Jon for staying true until the beyond

Dissection used to rule

 

[lurch70]

more news about this ...

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=56732

Shortly before the ritual suicide, he had sent farewell letters to his father and his girlfriend and explained to a friend, "I'm going away for a long, long time. I'm going to Transylvania."

wtf? what significance does Transylvania have in the thing he was practicing ... I know the relation Dracula, but what else is symbolic about it?

I AM from Transylvania and Romanian's always laugh a the mumbo jumbo always related to that region ...

I am really beginning to think this dude took the small bus to school ...

 

[skeptik]

My guess would be that it's a reference to Dead's suicide, where he wore an "I love Transylvania" shirt.

 

[NAD]

"I want to put the murder behind me and move forward," he told the newspaper. "It feels like I'm a new person after my time in prison. The time before the incarceration feels like another life. I've been through so much since. I've become more mature, older and look at life and death in a totally new way."

When asked about the crimes he was convicted of, Nödtveidt said, "No matter how you twist and turn it, it can't be undone. What happened happened and I must move forward with my life. I have taken responsibility for my actions by having served my time in prison. I'm not proud of the fact that I have to watch my mother cry, but I'm working with new strength and looking ahead."

When asked if he regrets what happened, Nödtveidt said, "Out of respect to the victim's family, I don't want to discuss what happened. The only thing I want to say is that I'm not proud of it."

Interesting, I thought the well documented account of his remorse of the murder was of the "fuck off who cares" variety.

What's with The Satanic Bible bit? I thought the MLO peeps hated LaVey.

 

[skeptik]

Wasn't that an interview conducted as he was getting out of prison though? I wouldn't be surprised if he was being careful with his words.

 

[Erik]

Interesting, I thought the well documented account of his remorse of the murder was of the "fuck off who cares" variety.

don't trust swedish tabloids

What's with The Satanic Bible bit? I thought the MLO peeps hated LaVey.

don't trust swedish tabloids

it was very probably liber azerate, not "the satanic bible"
to be fair, the original swedish article says "A satanic bible", not "THE satanic bible", and you could argue that liber azerate is a sort of "satanic bible"

 

[NAD]

Yar, cheers.

Last night I started to get pretty curious about what exactly happened here, so I'm done making jokes. For the time being.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Yes, I can see how people would do a lot of things I disagree with.

wise post ftw