Future Thoughts / Suggestions

[nomisofsiman]

Power metal is a dying genre at this point. Young kids are not into it. There are the hot bands that still play this genre but they dont draw like they used to. You should have seen the place empty out for Virgin Steele and Wizard. Both bands put on great performances but people didnt want power metal or just not fans.

This I disagree with. Power metal may not be as popular as it was but it's not dying. But more importantly, Wizard is just not known in the US. I had heard of them before the fest but by looking at some of their albums once on Amazon. After hearing them, I loved them but they just weren't a draw as they're unknown. Virgin Steele has the same problem, even though they're from the US and have a huge history. However, I think the main problem why people thinned out is because it got late. We all know in Chicago, people don't like to stay at shows much past midnight and that was the problem here again (though not as bad as last year).

I think we can all agree though that putting this show in the city will get more people, it's just a matter of is it possible to do so.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I second Bob's opinion that it might be wise to go with a smaller budget with maybe less bands in a smaller venue and see what happens. Like Justin said, there's plenty of good, quality traditional stuff here in the US to choose from that if the fest is promoted as well, will have the same crowd (even more possibly if in Chicago). A slow build is the best idea. I mean, let's be honest, there were a lot more people this year than last, which based on the positive energy from the show, means there probably will be even more the next, despite who is on the bill. I think getting the international acts are when there is money and the crowds keep getting larger.

 

[Jasonic]

I think we can all agree though that putting this show in the city will get more people

Maybe, and maybe not.
I still don't agree 100% on that one. Sorry.

I mean do you really think there would have been more people there if this was at Reggies? Hard to say.

 

[Diabolik]

Maybe, and maybe not.
I still don't agree 100% on that one. Sorry.

I mean do you really think there would have been more people there if this was at Reggies? Hard to say.

hell yes there would be. I know people who didnt come out because it was in joliet and too far for them. sad but true.

didnt you not come friday because you didnt want to drive to joliet late and twice in one weekend?

 

[skyrefuge]

More people were excited to see bands like Voltax and Skull Fist than Wizard and Virgin Steele....basically newcomers got the best reaction and crowd size than the veterans.

I was only there on Friday, but when you mentioned Skull Fist, I had the exact same thought as Simon...the crowds (air-quotes!) for those 3rd-from-the-top bands probably had a lot more to do with their position in the schedule than their quality/draw.

I would like to see if they did next year with a band like Split Heaven who is very simular to Voltax play. Have them and another band who is young and hungry play. Then just have bands on the level as Borrowed Time play and just do the fest at a smaller club. If you get say 200 people there you will make you money back. No need to rush into something as big as this year again. Do a nice slow build up again.

So your advice is to remove the headliners from the bill, and that will result in a doubling of the turnout?

I know people who didnt come out because it was in joliet and too far for them. sad but true.

Certainly. But you're forgetting that it gets balanced out by the people who live in the suburbs but don't go to shows in the city because it's too far/scary for them. I bet that on the whole, attendance in the city *would* be greater, but not enough to significantly change things. I feel like fans of old-man metal are pretty suburban-based anyway, so the difference between city/suburbs attendance for Virgin Steele is much smaller than it would be for, say, Pelican.

Also recall that 14 bands played at this thing, which if you add up all their numbers, probably ends up being like half the people who were in attendance.

Neil

 

[Jasonic]

I feel like fans of old-man metal are pretty suburban-based anyway, so the difference between city/suburbs attendance for Virgin Steele is much smaller than it would be for, say, Pelican.

Also recall that 14 bands played at this thing, which if you add up all their numbers, probably ends up being like half the people who were in attendance.

I agree with these two points.
I am not sure if the handful of Red Line Tap / Wicker Park hipster / Cobra Lounge crowd would offset those in the burbs who wouldn't go to the city. As I said, no one is making any bad or incorrect points. My only problem is with the statement that being in the city would 100% guarantee a better turnout.

This show certainly had a bigger crowd than any Alehorn, for example.
I guess that's really the only other Chicago festival to closely compare it to for now.

I too was thinking the same thing about bands. I mean the rail for the most part on Saturday was made up of the Borrowed Time guys, Stone Magnum guys, and the Voltax guys. Still wish they didnt have the booze upstairs so the floor would be more crowded.

 

[Jasonic]

didnt you not come friday because you didnt want to drive to joliet late and twice in one weekend?

Yes,
Though those reasons would be the same City or Joliet.
As I said above, and as Neil said, I am not sure if the additional city folk would outweigh the suburbanites who wouldn't go to the city.

It certainly would be worth trying a smaller scale one night event next time in the city to see though.

 

[Wizard_Junkie]

I still feel the city would attract more people, Joliet and the surrounding towns are mostly into the deathcore and metalcore scene whereas anywhere in Chicago would have an actual base to build around. All the shows I've been to at Mojoes have had really terrible draws where I know Reggies would attract more because I've seen the same bands play at a Reggies or Bottom Lounge with a doubled turnout.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I think part of it too is exactly where this show was. A lot of people I know are afraid to go to Joliet. A number of friends, family and co-workers asked about the show and where I was going and they were like, be careful in Joliet. It's not the best area so that might be part of it too. I don't know for sure, though it doesn't bother me.

 

[Diabolik]

So your advice is to remove the headliners from the bill, and that will result in a doubling of the turnout?


Also recall that 14 bands played at this thing, which if you add up all their numbers, probably ends up being like half the people who were in attendance.

Neil

If you noticed....both nights when the headliners came on...most people left. Most of the people I know where there for Brocas Helm, Skull Fist, Pharaoh and Voltax. Voltax had the largest crowd on the main floor watching them. Right there shows that people are interested and willing to come out for bands like this than say a Virgin Steele again. You can run all the numbers and percentages you want....this is fact....we all saw it right there.

With doing this as well you save lots of money by not paying some band who thinks they are worth more than they are really worth.

 

[Justin G]

I think part of it too is exactly where this show was. A lot of people I know are afraid to go to Joliet. A number of friends, family and co-workers asked about the show and where I was going and they were like, be careful in Joliet. It's not the best area so that might be part of it too. I don't know for sure, though it doesn't bother me.

Is Joliet really that bad of an area? It seemed nice enough and safe enough to me.

 

[Justin G]

If you noticed....both nights when the headliners came on...most people left. Most of the people I know where there for Brocas Helm, Skull Fist, Pharaoh and Voltax. Voltax had the largest crowd on the main floor watching them. Right there shows that people are interested and willing to come out for bands like this than say a Virgin Steele again. You can run all the numbers and percentages you want....this is fact....we all saw it right there.

With doing this as well you save lots of money by not paying some band who thinks they are worth more than they are really worth.

Yes, but on last.fm...

 

[nomisofsiman]

Is Joliet really that bad of an area? It seemed nice enough and safe enough to me.

Parts of it can be from what I hear. I don't think that's the case really with the downtown area where the venue is.

 

[nomisofsiman]

If you noticed....both nights when the headliners came on...most people left. Most of the people I know where there for Brocas Helm, Skull Fist, Pharaoh and Voltax. Voltax had the largest crowd on the main floor watching them. Right there shows that people are interested and willing to come out for bands like this than say a Virgin Steele again. You can run all the numbers and percentages you want....this is fact....we all saw it right there.

With doing this as well you save lots of money by not paying some band who thinks they are worth more than they are really worth.

Bob- you've even mentioned before how in Chicago/illinois people leave once it gets later. I know you liked those bands the most, but just because the most people were there for those bands, didn't necessarily mean those were the bands people were there for in particular. Let's face it. Turn out just wasn't that good and I think if some of those bands ended up playing the headlining set, they too would've seen the crowd thin out.

 

[Diabolik]

Yes, but on last.fm...

hahahahahahahaha. now you are part of the Chicago posse.

 

[Diabolik]

Bob- you've even mentioned before how in Chicago/illinois people leave once it gets later. I know you liked those bands the most, but just because the most people were there for those bands, didn't necessarily mean those were the bands people were there for in particular. Let's face it. Turn out just wasn't that good and I think if some of those bands ended up playing the headlining set, they too would've seen the crowd thin out.

actaully most people I talked to were even telling me that they are not staying for Wizard and Virgin Steele. They didnt like them. Not that they are bad bands but they are power metal. If they played earlier in the day most would have been upstairs and outside for them.

 

[Justin G]

actaully most people I talked to were even telling me that they are not staying for Wizard and Virgin Steele. They didnt like them. Not that they are bad bands but they are power metal. If they played earlier in the day most would have been upstairs and outside for them.

I had every intention for staying through VS's set, but Dave did so many of those "Eeeeeeeeee" things I just couldn't take more than a couple songs.

Sheer exhaustion had me cutting out during Wizard's set.

 

[Jasonic]

Yes, but on last.fm...

WIN!!!!!!!!

 

[skyrefuge]

Yes, but on last.fm...

...Voltax has 970 listeners. 970! By way of comparison, Pharaoh has 9107, and Virgin Steele has 47,501. Heck, even Skull Fist at least has 2875.

Ok, maybe Voltax is horribly underrepresented at last.fm, because most tr00 metal warrior Voltax fans listen exclusively on vinyl and never on their poseur computers (despite the fact that Skull Fist's poseur fans have no problem with computers). It still seems like a Voltax album could garner at least ONE review at metal-archives.com. But have they? Nope.

If you noticed....both nights when the headliners came on...most people left.

So I still maintain that no one gave a fuck about Voltax. I completely agree that they had the largest crowd on the floor during their set, and since they acquitted themselves well in front of that crowd, that would probably help their draw in the future. But the size of that crowd was coincidence, not causation.

Simon believes that people leave shows as the hours get later. I believe the same thing. You used to say the same thing, though you seem to have forgotten that now. Justin EXPLICITLY SAID that that was his reason for leaving during the headliners.

On the other end, people also arrive *early* to make sure they don't miss the bands they want to see. I only cared about Pharaoh and Virgin Steele, but since I was going all the way to Joliet, I figured I would catch another band or two and make sure I didn't miss the ones I really wanted to see. So I was also there for half of A Sound of Thunder's set, and then Voltax. I talked to two guys who came from two different states, basically to see Pharaoh. They also arrived in time to see Voltax. That's three people who saw Voltax completely unintentionally, and I'm sure we weren't the only ones.

Heck, that's the whole theory behind being an "opening band", that you play for people who wouldn't otherwise make any effort to see you! But when opening bands see a big crowd there watching them, most aren't dumb enough to believe that they're the reason those people came to the concert.

 

[Diabolik]

Actually all the hispanic guys and gals there were there to see Voltax. I talked to lots of different people the past month about the show and Voltax was talked about a lot. Bands like that are off the radar of places like last.fm.

I could have told you days before that people were going to leave before Virgin Steele and Wizard.....everyone communicated with at various shows said they were not staying for them. Sorry...there is an underground and bands like them are not fan faves or respected. These are two totally different fanbases here....just like at ProgPower...you have your power metal guys and prog types. Same thing here. There is no computer nerd data to back me up....just go to shows and talk to people.