goodbye Donald Rumsfeld you absolute cock

Little mexican teenage girls with pencil thin eye lashes spreading their legs quicker than a rumor. Hell why not? When you have a nice $400 check, and $300 booklet of foodstamps with your name on it. Get cut in on a little public housing, and you're all set. Disgusting.
Just out of curiosity, why do you care? I'm not looking to debate, I'm merely interested in understanding where you're coming from on this. And why does it make a difference if the girls are Mexican? As I understand it, there are more caucasians on welfare than there are blacks and hispanics combined.

Zod
 
Yeah I guess mass genocide of your own people ( saddams) is perfectly normal. I can see how thats acceptable .

Your governmental choices aside, Why Iraq? That question has yet to be properly answered with the correct answer. Yes, genocide.

So what? It's happening in a lot of other places, and has been happening there for a lot longer than it was in Iraq.

so. Somebody. Why Iraq? You all know the answer.
 
ELIDE, please don't talk about politics, you just embarass yourself.
and then learn to use the quote function properly for once in your life, jesus tap-dancing christ!


haha i love all the people "durrr, saddam was liek killing all his own people we had to invade". yeah, that was the rationale for the invasion. it wasn't the imminent threat of nuclear destruction....er, wait, i mean the harboring terrorists.......er, wait, i mean the not allowing inspectors.....er, wait....

fact: saddam possessed no WMDs. the united states forces, on the other hand, continue using cluster bombs and depleted uranium shells and bombs, both of which linger in the environment causing wanton civilian casualties long after their initial deployment. hell, they still find thousands of cluster bombs a year in *kuwait*, from the first gulf war 15 years ago. oh right, not to mention the studies suggesting the US forces used chemical and nerve agents in the offensive at fallujah in 2004.

fact: there is zero credible evidence linking saddam hussein to the 9-11 attacks. the united states, of course, is itself home to dozens of terrorists, but the anti-cuban kind; these include Luis Posada Carriles, who blew up a civilian airliner and now resides in comfort in Florida. (now that's our kind of terrorist!) not to mention the hundreds of former civilian and military officers from vietnam, guatemala, el salvador, haiti, chile, indonesia, iran, somalia, argentina, and more who are responsible for innumerable death squads, tortures, disappearances, and massacres.

fact: the united states demanded that saddam hussein open up his presidential palaces, his personal security military units, and other highly-secret military facilities to weapons inspectors. naturally, in 1997, when the US senate ratified the "Convention on the prohibition of the development, production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons and on their destruction", they added an amendment stipulating that "the president may deny a request to inspect any facility in the united states in cases where the president determines that the inspection may pose a threat to the national security interests of the united states." ah, hypocrisy is rarely this refreshingly black and white.
http://www.stimson.org/pubs.cfm?ID=28


not to mention, who abandoned the kurds in the 70s after funding their insurgency during our allegiance with iran? or after the first gulf war? oh that's right. we did. somehow i think if humanitarian assistance was the main motivating factor--or even a goddamn consideration--i don't think the historical record would show a decades-long trail of not only abandoning them to their fate but supplying the iraqi government with the weapons they used to suppress them.


and, uh, by the way

800px-Iraqattacksasofjuly2006.JPG


not to mention the water and power getting cut intermittently. and the curfews. and the checkpoints. it's a damn swingin' time in iraq now, innit!?
 
p.s. interesting note from iraqi blogger (how i loathe that word)

Hearing excerpts of the current PM's address to the nation intrigued me to know what the victims' families had to say. Mr. Maliki said the victims' families have the right to rejoice. I couldn't miss my friends' celebratory expressions, could I? My high school chum's dad returned from Iran only three days before the invasion. After April 9, he couldn't help the tears and fears as he saw the new Iraqi politicians, who had personally overseen the torture practiced against him and fellow inmates replace the man who handed him to them on a sliver platter. As for my other friend, in the early days of the trial, she was happy that Saddam was finally humiliated, though not for the crime perpetrated against her late husband, who was not recognized as a martyr by the current government, who happened to have similar feelings towards communists. I rang her to see what she had to say. She was in tears.

"Get outta here don't tell me you feel bad?" I teased, though I know she's such a softie, cries over anything that ranges from sappy Egyptian movies to religious sermons to crappy ballads to Shia songs to Mills& Boon types of books.

"Well I do! My neighbour lost her sons. The militia killed the four of them and wrote Wahabis on their door! I've known them for 30 years, for God's sake!" she said.

"So not feeling good about the verdict, eh?" I asked.

"He killed my husband, but I have never been as scared for my son as I am now," she said.

http://firstwordsfirstwalkfirstiniraq.blogspot.com/
 
I'm bored so I'll play devil's advocate despite what little I've said in this thread already being misconstrued.

Honestly, I think I've seen nothing more than four arguments against this war. 1) We invaded under false pretense. 2) The situation is worse now than it was before the invasion. 3) We should not have gone there while there are other locations also facing serious problems. 4) We made mistakes there in the past so we shouldn’t bother trying to rectify them now.

Yet, none of these make a damned lick of sense to me. This may be over simplifying things but answer these questions. Were not very large portions of the region malcontent? Was Saddam not a danger to many people’s happiness and very lives? Should Saddam and his regime not have been removed? If one believes they have the power to save and improve lives, should they not attempt to do so? Whether or not there were other reasons than those stated by the Bush administration, do you really think they would want the kind of death and chaos that persists over there now?

I’m not trying to justify this war (I find it near impossible to justify killing of any kind for any reason). I supported it at it’s outset but no longer. I never thought there were WMDs. I never thought the whole of the population would love us. Sadly, I did buy into the rhetoric that said we had the means to be in and out fairly quickly with very limited civilian casualties and for a much small price (both literal and soldiers lives lost). Do I wish we’d taken our time to plan things out better? Of course. Saddam wasn’t about to do anything with every eye around the world on him. But what might have happened once those eyes were redirected? But hell, while we’re wishing there are quite a few options that I think would have been (while not optimal) better. Assassination? Kidnapping? The forced dissolution of Iraq’s arbitrary, British defined borders? Those might have turned out better. The problem is that under the current system these are nearly impossibilities. War is a much easier thing to initialize for a government, especially the U.S.

There is no doubt that this has gone horribly. And yet, what better option was there?
 
Honestly, I think I've seen nothing more than four arguments against this war.
How about the fact that it's cost us the lives of nearly 3,000 U.S. soldiers, 50,000 Iraqi civilians and has cost the American taxpayers 340 billion dollars and counting. How about the fact that misdirecting our troops to Iraq has left the job unfinished in Afghanistan? How about that the other "axis of evil" nations are further along in their weapons development programs? How about the fact that we're now hated around the world? How about the fact that we've destablized the region and have no exit strategy? How about the fact that Army Corp. of Engineers and the National Guard wasn't available to assist with Katrina? How about that we've given Halliburton and the alike "cost plus" contracts for reconstruction?

By the way, what was the argument FOR going to war?

Zod
 
@thanatopsis: i would say um...not having the war. that would have been a better option. let's see...50,000 civilians dead...almost 3,000 american soldiers dead...at least 25,000 soldiers wounded, not to mention those that have sustained psychological damages, of which there are many....lasting damage to the american military forces and iraqi population due to use of cluster bombs and depleted uranium (gulf war syndrome, anyone?)...american intelligence saying the situation in iraq is worsening the terrorism threat...people still living in terror in iraq...a drain on budget and resources perhaps best described as chthonic...

i'm not saying this is all according to the neocons' plan, but it reeks of their shortsightedness in their lip-smacking desperation to launch this war. saddam was terrible, has anybody questioned that? but the united states' objective in this war was not to free the poor oppressed iraqi people from that awful saddam hussein guy, it was to replace the saddam regime, which had long since ceased to be a useful tool in their middle east scheming, with something friendly to US political and business interests, including oil interests. the hypocrisy, the scheming, the double-talk, all of it just serves to illustrate that these self-serving bastards in washington certainly do not have the interests of the iraqi people at heart.
saddam posed no more threat in 2003 than he did at any point in the previous 10 years. you ask what he would do with the eyes of the world redirected...that makes no sense at all! where were the eyes of the world before those fascists in the pentagon started their saber-rattling? the united states created a monster in saddam, but launching an illegal, unilateral, politically- and economically-driven war was, in retrospect, perhaps not such a great fucking option for cleaning up the mess.

soccer moms in the US are driving SUVs and their kids are all dying for their gasoline. fuck this shitty war, fuck the bloodthirsty fearmongers that dragged us into it, and GOODBYE DONALD RUMSFELD YOU ABSOLUTE COCK
Salute-Smiley-German.gif




(nothing personal, but devils advocate or no that deserves a rebuttal)
 
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This quote pretty much sums up my views. I was reminded of it because of an interview I read with this guy in a paper at school:

Noam Chomsky said:
It is important to bear in mind that the term "terrorism" is commonly used as a term of abuse, not accurate description. There are official definitions of "terrorism", for example, those of the US and British governments, which are quite similar. Bu they are not used, because they do not distinguish between good and bad varieties of terrorism. That distinction is determined by the agent of the crime, not its character. It is close to a historical universal that our terrorism against them is right and just (whoever we happen to be), while their terrorism against us is an outrage. As long as that practice is adopted, discussion of terrorism is not serious. It is no more than a form of propaganda and apologetics.
 
Just out of curiosity, why do you care? I'm not looking to debate, I'm merely interested in understanding where you're coming from on this. And why does it make a difference if the girls are Mexican? As I understand it, there are more caucasians on welfare than there are blacks and hispanics combined.

Zod

Greg, I'm not pointing out one group of people and omitting another. It makes no difference to me if the welfare slaggers are white, brown, black, purple, or pink. I only target mexicans, because they are the only people in my neighborhood who I see taking advantage of the system. I don't mention blacks as I don't live in Compton or Watts. I live right smack dab in the middle of little Mexico, aka the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area. Whites are the minority around these parts, the ones you do see are usually employed and live out in suburbia. I'm sure there's plenty of white yokels who are whipping out 8 kids and having Uncle Sam fit the bill. You just don't see them in this here. I only speak of what I'm familiar with. :)
 
@Jerry -- you should just move to somewhere less diverse like NYC, you dirty gringo. :loco:

Regarding Noam Chomsky, it's a good quote. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

When the Nazi's invaded France, we called the fighting frogs the "French Resistance". Meanwhile, I'm sure the Nazi's thought of them as terrorists.

Also, when the soviets invaded Afghanistan, we referred to the Mujahadeen Taleban as freedom fighters. I'm sure the soviets thought of them as insurgents.
 
We were discussing the definition of "terrorism" in class yesterday, and we never reached a conclusion because as that quote alludes to "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

Edit: Thanks for beating me JK.