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Well, Europe has certainly known how to get out of several shitholes. However, the euro is not supported in any solid metal and, if you take a look at countries once so prosperous as Germany, you'll see nowadays they can barely support their entire populations based on the astounding productivity of just a few.

So I do believe that they're walking over a very thin line that could come crashing down if, say, a war crisis broke out. And that's a likely prospect.
 
Well, there is a considerable tension between Europeans and muslims, just take a look at the Muhammed cartoons thingy. Then there are the attacks on England and Spain and the threats to do it in some other countries. Remember 18 European governments supported the war on Iraq and several also give their support to Israel. Europe is actually kneedeep in the conflict.
 
As far as i know, only two countries (Spain and the UK) fully supported the USA in their Irak campaign. The rest either disagreed or were neutral.

Note, however, that i'm not the most well-informed person about this subject. But let's suppose for a moment that Europe does get into another war. First, it won't be against the USA, so they'll be able to win (unless terrorists start striking massively at large cities in Europe and countries start dropping out of the war one by one). And, even if they lose again, they'll rebuild themselves and rise to power once more in only half a century or less (like they did after ww2).
 
If all hell breaks loose, only god knows how things are going to go like. Circumstances now are entirely different from the previous WWs. Globalization and state coalitions make things quite complicated.

Only 4 countries (US, UK, Australia and Poland) fought in Iraq, but some 8 Western and 10 Eastern Europeans supported the attack. UK, Spain, Italy, Iceland, Netherlands, Poland, Roumania, Belgium are the ones I remember right now.
 
UndoControl said:
*gets popcorn and soda and sits next to you*

Seriously, though.. i think it might not get all that ugly if a new socialist order arises after capitalism is proved worthless.

Wow, this was so stupid (or naive, in your case) that it almost made me cry. Where the hell did you get the idea that socialism solves things? I would really really like to grant all those romantic socialist dreamers who actually know shit about it (like Tom Morello) the pleasure of living in a socialist country. What were we thinking of, 41 years of socialism, only? Why not 72, like Russians (well, they will never get out of that shithole), or 100, or why not socialism foeva?
 
Just so you know, the russians (or soviets, actually) were never socialists. Neither were the chinese, the cubans, the vietnamese or any other country who claimed to be thus. They called themselves communists and were really dictators. Lenin and Stalin never led a communist/socialist government. True socialism is marxism, and there has never been a marxist government. Maybe if Trotsky hadn't been killed...

Seriously, mate: A marxist regime would solve many, many things. For one, there'd be more equality and justice, instead of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. And i'm not talking about the stupid shit everyone (including Stalin and Lenin, apparently) thinks socialism means. Socialism doesn't say everyone should get paid equally regardless of how much / how hard they work, but that everyone should start life with the same opportunities as everyone else and then build up from there to their liking (whoever works harder gets paid more and so on, but at least everyone had a chance to be great).

And i hope Claudia doesn't bitch at me for this, but capitalism is, in my opinion, one of the two greatest evils of the world (the other being monotheistic religions / fanaticism).
 
You are wrong obviously, but thats ok, hadnt we all been marxists when we were 18? Your definition sounds so good, too bad it has been proven deadly wrong in practice so many times, that I see it as a fucking wonder that people really still do believe in the possibility of marxism being applied in practice. You say marxist regime - wow - would solve many, many things. Equality and justice? Come on! People are not equal, never have been, never will be, its against the natural course of things. Therefore, you have to tell them to be equal. But how do you do that, cause there are plenty of folks who simply do not want to be told what to do? Well, you force them, easy. You surround the country with barbed wire, you ban all oppostion, imprison or kill all its members later. You rule the economy, everything is cheap, but there is no choice (really, the only car you could buy here was LADA and there were looong waiting lists for them - then, after 2 ot 3 years you got e.g. a green one, so you took it even though you hated the colour, because that was the one you got, period). Socialism doesnt give you an opportunity (yeah, well, it does, join the party and be more equal than others), it tells you what to do. It takes care of you, right, makes a parasite of you, totally incapable of independent action, a lazy bastard (this was the case of applying marxist ideas on gypsies here - they have always been travellers, nomads, who came to a town, repaired some pots, played at the weddings and funerals, earned some money and left, thats why people liked them. But they were always living in improvised sheds, were dirty, so the commies said no, we will give you flats and social support and will take a good care of you. So now there is a large Roma ghetto in every town and village, gypsies dont do anything but multiply and destroy the place where they live and everyone hates them). Not to speak of the fact that socialist economy creates a huge debt and sooner or later goes bankrupt, which sometimes leads to famine, sometimes to civil war, sometimes only to a huge crisis.

Capitalism has its undisputable vices, but these are I think outweighed by its virtues. Extremes are bad, whether on the right or the left. But I think capitalism is a lot people friendlier and above all, has been proven positive in practice a lot more than communism. You said, your parents unfortunately left Britain. Why that if you like marxism so much? The fact that you actually can criticise capitalism proves that its way better than socialism, where critical thinking is seen as an attempt to violate the principle of equality and equally punished.

I dont say that people and free market should take care of everything. But I dont think socialism with its totally centralised way of dealing with things does better. Free market governments try to lessen their power and tranfer it to the regional authorities. And thats the key I think - state will never become a community, but a municipality can. Regional governments can and should do the redistribution of wealth the state fails to do, regions know the situation best and should build homes for the disabled, orphans etc. The redistribution has got to be addressed and people will gladly contribute, because theyd know what its for. But overall? You have HUGE taxes in every socialist country and very very very untransparent distribution.
 
QRV said:
If all hell breaks loose, only god knows how things are going to go like. Circumstances now are entirely different from the previous WWs. Globalization and state coalitions make things quite complicated.

Only 4 countries (US, UK, Australia and Poland) fought in Iraq, but some 8 Western and 10 Eastern Europeans supported the attack. UK, Spain, Italy, Iceland, Netherlands, Poland, Roumania, Belgium are the ones I remember right now.


Belgium never supported the attack !!
 
so im new, and i'll post here first then.

im 15, almost 16, male. i play hockey and rugby for my school, i play hockey and football for my city. im 6'2 and about 250 pounds. love dark tranquilliy, cant wait until they come to montreal on the 27th, i have a brother and a dog.
 
well Belgium and Bulgaria arent really in the same part of Europe :p but nevermind. I know Spain and The UK supported the attack but I dont remember for the rest

@ brockenchains: welcome :wave: . You've just landed in the middle of one of the many political discution on this forum
 
thanks, off to a good start with welcomes :) political discussions are great, i like reading them. however i don't really have much to say about them, because i dont know anything of it.
 
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