iPhone 4

[James Murphy]

lol.... yeah Morgan, Flash sucks, as you yourself admit... it is the past, and this is the mobile age.

you seemed to agree with every point Jobs made about Flash, but came to a different conclusion. well, that means one of you of is wrong... well i know where my money is.

point of fact... i just don't use very many flash sites, and for the few i do use, i can wait until i get to my desktop computer if the tradeoff is that my phone runs more efficiently. the end.

 

[xFkx]

Well if you're on a mac then I agree that flash will be just plain annoying, the flash player port for mac has been badly written since forever, way worse performance then on pc.

On the other hand, Jobs's anti-flash crusade is blown out of proportions, and I doubt he has the end-user in mind. I would like to make my choices if I want or do not want flash on my mac. And if flash is so lame, how can 3 animated gifs kill safari in an instant

 

[James Murphy]

You know... after reading that article about the flash issue.. and as a web programmer... I agree 100%

wow... who knew :S

Yep Melb, it makes perfect sense.

Morgan, take note... but you won't though, you'll make some rambling post in reply where you'll agree with all the logic behind it but then say it's illogical not to have Flash in Apple's mobile devices.

yep.

 

[James Murphy]

Well if you're on a mac then I agree that flash will be just plain annoying, the flash player port for mac has been badly written since forever, way worse performance then on pc.

On the other hand, Jobs's anti-flash crusade is blown out of proportions, and I doubt he has the end-user in mind. I would like to make my choices if I want or do not want flash on my mac. And if flash is so lame, how can 3 animated gifs kill safari in an instant

whatever you say hoss.... Flash works just fine on my desktop mac... just as good as it does on my PC anyway, and every other PC i have occasion to use these days.

safari for desktop does seem a bit goofy to me... not by way of crashing, it doesn't really crash often enough to bother me, but just the way some things are implemented as compared to other browsers. Safari Mobile works great on my iphone though.. it's never crashed once for me and seems to work great for the mobile web... normal web too, for that matter. no, i prefer Firefox on my desktop mac.

 

[Morgan C]

James I don't know how you do it, but you manage to make Macs seem absolutely flawless in every post of yours. Despite Jobs stating specifically in his essay which YOU linked that Flash works terribly on Macs, you then go on to say

Flash works just fine on my desktop mac... just as good as it does on my PC anyway, and every other PC i have occasion to use these days.

I don't even know who you're agreeing with here.. it just seems that anyone who says Macs are bad or work badly with anything at all are completely wrong.


And if the fact that I'm agreeing that Flash is shit is ALL you got out of my posts, I encourage rereading them. If you're too lazy, here's a summary.

Yes, its shit. But there isn't an alternative.

 

[James Murphy]

ha ha ha.. it really doesn't matter what i say Morgain... all you read is "macs are AWESOME, nothing EVER goes wrong with them.. imma suck steve job's cock". lol

you are guilty of EXACTLY what you just accused me of... one-sided, zealous dogma.

• i know you said there was no alternative.. but i say i think there is, site developers just need to get off their asses and meet the needs of the mobile era.

• and in direct contradiction to your characterization of my supposed "unconditional mac love", i STRAIGHT THE FUCK UP SAID that Safari for desktop is goofy. i don't like it, and i don't use it. and i've posted loads of other criticisms of apple and their products on these very pages. very convenient for you to not remember any of that.

you just read what you want to read Morgan... you are determined that i'm a little mac fanboi... never-mind that i've been computing since the mid to late 80's and have owned and used just about every platform since that time, going back to my dad's old Commodore, Atari, and Tandy computers and dot matrix printers... and have used PCs and Macs professionally, as in "to earn my living" since the last 16 or 17 years.

I DON"T CARE ABOUT FLASH on my mobile devices.. it's not power efficient, and that ALONE is enough to make me happy to avoid it on my mobile platforms.

 

[xFkx]

whatever you say hoss.... Flash works just fine on my desktop mac... just as good as it does on my PC anyway, and every other PC i have occasion to use these days.

Well i'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass, i'm not a full blown flash dev, but some of the guys here who have been coding web apps since flash wasn't called flash have torn their hair out to get their apps/sites to work well on mac's as they do on pc's. I'm not saying that it has anything to do with mac's, it's adobe's fault clearly.

 

[dani]

long time mac fag here.

to be honest, i hate flash. it's slow, buggy, inconsistent, and not really that great. it's not coming to iphone, and i'm glad for that. i don't actually know any site that i visit that relies on it to function.

that said, the real issue i have with apple in this respect, is the alarming precedents they set regarding who owns what, and what you can do with your own stuff.

we're heading for a future where we buy a computer, yet we don't own it. apple have made it really clear that they are the gatekeepers for ipad/iphone, they dictate what goes on in their devices. they often change policies with no notice, and leave developers with little or no information as to why their apps are being rejected, or worse yet, removed.

and no one cares.

murphy, there is no doubt flash is a pile of shit, and it's a good thing we wont have it on our phones. i'm just not sure if i like where this ride is heading.

thanks,

ps. iphone 4 looks reallllllll good!

 

[James Murphy]

yeah, i see both sides of that coin dcdanman.... i understand your concerns, and feel some of them to varying degrees myself... but i also get Apple's desire to control to some degree what apps can be added, just in the interest of keeping their mobile devices working well, for one.

so, i'm of two minds about it... but one thing is for sure, Apple is a company, not a dictatorship, and as such they are market-driven... so what they can "get away" with will be just as market dependent as any other company in the long run.

but they do indeed resist some aspects of what the "masses" seem to want... and i'm not sure that's a bad thing totally, because if everything... literally everything... is reduced to the lowest common denominator, then everything is kinda shit, innit?

 

[xFkx]

Good point dcdanman, purely hypothetical, but imagine that Jobs decides for us. consumers, that using Protools HD is against his vision user friendly of music creation (Protools HD is not "open technology" blah blah), and everybody is forced use Logic

 

[James Murphy]

Good point dcdanman, purely hypothetical, but imagine that Jobs decides for us. consumers, that using Protools HD is against his vision user friendly of music creation (Protools HD is not "open technology" blah blah), and everybody is forced use Logic

yeah... well... that uh, takes us right back to the market-driven reality of Apple as a publicly traded entity... sooo, yeah. not gonna happen.

pretending is fun though, eh?

 

[Morgan C]

ha ha ha.. it really doesn't matter what i say Morgain... all you read is "macs are AWESOME, nothing EVER goes wrong with them.. imma suck steve job's cock". lol

Fair enough. I'll stop assaulting your character if you stop mine, and lets get back to the actual arguments, agreed?

i know you said there was no alternative.. but i say i think there is, site developers just need to get off their asses and meet the needs of the mobile era.

Pray tell, what alternative is this?
http://blog.gonchuki.com/archives/6-reasons-why-the-html5-vs-flash-debate-is-idiotic/

HTML5 is not 'the new' Flash. It cannot completely replace Flash, and it will take years to be fully integrated into most websites [and even then Flash will still be around].

Perhaps the alternative is just to abandon Flash completely, because phone's can't support it. No more webcam/microphone implementation, no more online browser gaming, etc. etc. (I'm not familiar enough with Flash's functionalities to list more). Let's all just have basic HTML files on our websites, to cater to the lowest common denominator, until HTML5 becomes widespread. Unfortunately, no-one is going to just up and do that. It's a lot easier for Adobe/Apple to work something out together than to redo the billions of sites on the web that do Flash.


Again, what is the alternative that you keep going on about?

I DON"T CARE ABOUT FLASH on my mobile devices.. it's not power efficient, and that ALONE is enough to make me happy to avoid it on my mobile platforms.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...eat_flash_surprising_results_of_new_tests.php




I simply don't see the REASON for not allowing Flash on a phone/iPad. Its in so many websites, its just foolish to completely disallow it. If you want to save battery power on the go, fine make an option to turn Flash off (like noScript in Firefox, but for Flash). But if you're at home with your new iPad/iPhone4 plugged in, browsing the web in the best new way possible and you come across a ton of websites that you just cannot access.. where is the sense in that?

 

[James Murphy]

Morgan i guess we just can't meet on level ground about this because you use a lot of mobile flash, or want to.... but i don't, and don't care about it.... so there just can't really be a meeting of the minds here. we'll just have to agree to disagree. fair play?

 

[xFkx]

yeah... well... that uh, takes us right back to the market-driven reality of Apple as a publicly traded entity... sooo, yeah. not gonna happen.

pretending is fun though, eh?

Sure is, though is someone would tell me 5 years ago that Jobs would go on a war with adobe i would have said no way.

 

[Morgan C]

Morgan i guess we just can't meet on level ground about this because you use a lot of mobile flash, or want to.... but i don't, and don't care about it.... so there just can't really be a meeting of the minds here. we'll just have to agree to disagree. fair play?

I don't use a LOT of mobile flash tbh. And I don't think it's really about a meeting of minds. It's not whether I use Flash a lot, or whether you use Flash a lot.

It's whether, when a website uses Flash, if I want to be able to access it. Its whether the general public uses Flash's capabilites. It's whether a ton of websites utilise Flash (alone or in conjunction with HTML or whatever). And the answer to all of those is: yes.

So I hope Adobe/Apple can come to some resolution here and get something that works. Because honestly I don't see how introducing Flash on iPods could POSSIBLE harm Apple.

 

[James Murphy]

Calm down guise, it's just an iPhone.

you're like a late-hit penalty in football.... the play was over, so.....

 

[James Murphy]

regardless Morgan, my mobile life remains unaffected... so i can't be arsed to care too much.

 

[Severu]

I would love to get this new iPhone, but... my old 2G iPhone is stubborn enough to work flawlessly after being abused for two years... It almost looks like a vintage worn Fender... I guess I'll have to wait.

 

[Morgan C]

regardless Morgan, my mobile life remains unaffected... so i can't be arsed to care too much.

I can only use my iPod on the net when I'm connected to a WiFi.. which is at home.. so I just use my computer instead. ;p It bears no relevance on my life either, but its always fun to argue.

 

[Joematthews]

I don't see how introducing Flash on iPods could POSSIBLE harm Apple.

Hmmm, I think people being able to play flash games and have access to flash based websites could put a bit of a monopoly on the app store, which is as good a reason as any from apples point of view to not include it.