NFL 2012

[muzmaze]

Interesting Gronk / Ditka article. I knew Ditka was good...didn't know he was that good?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20....gronkowski/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yeah, I saw that as well, good to read. I firmly believe he has at least another 2 or 3 years of high caliber play, even if/when the Colts draft Luck.

Colts will probably trade Manning for a 1st then some. If Palmer can get a 1st and 2nd, the Colts should get a real big haul for Manning. And for a team that's a quarterback away, that could be great. Can you imagine if the 49ers, for example, traded for Manning? They would be a serious contender. Considering how terrible the Colts are right now, it doesn't make sense to keep Manning while they rebuild.

 

[Dak]

Yeah it's not looking good for Manning being in a Colts jersey next year. It's a $$ issue, unless he wants to take a big pay cut to have Luck under his wing.

 

[King Richard]

The Colts can't trade Peyton. He's either playing or he's getting cut.

 

[Dak]

So Rob Ryan came out and took the blame for the defensive miscues/miscommunication, and the defensive leaders came out saying they haven't executed. Both sides said they have cleared up the problems. So we will see.

Frankly, Dallas can't lose another game, period. That is going to take a 2007 Giants/2010 Packers-esque turn around, with your stud RB gone and various defensive starters (including Ware and Jenkins, the top LB/CB) banged up.

I'm extremely skeptical at this point.

 

[skeptik]

I'm thinking Rick is right on this one. First of all, you don't trade a player on the prospects of a draftee. At least not a player like Peyton Manning. Frankly, and I say this with the full disclosure of not being a fan of college football and having had limited exposure, but I have not been overwhelmingly impressed with Luck in the small handful of games that I've seen from him, mostly this season. I certainly don't think he's a lock to be elite. It's certainly for more likely for Peyton Manning to be an elite player two years from now than it is for Luck to be, in my eyes. Also, don't forget that rookie contracts are way down from where they were 2 years ago. Sam Bradford signed a 6 year, $78M contract with $50M guaranteed. Cam Newton signed a 4 year, fully guaranteed $22M contract.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Manning will be with the Colts as an elite QB for years & the Colts will not come close to signing Luck with the first pick overall. I would bet anything on it.

Luck is beyond over rated & the Peyton/Colt relationship is much too strong to consider any trade or cut lol I actually find it extremely amusing people think this is even a possibility.

 

[King Richard]

I'm not particularly sold on Luck either. People are claiming Luck is the second coming of Peyton, but if anything, he's a Peyton Lite. Just look at what he's done in his college career and compare it to Peyton. Peyton makes him look silly.

There are some players you can just watch play, listen to talk, or just get a general vibe off of even without ever meeting them in person, that makes you say "ya, that's a bad, bad man." Peyton is one of them. Luck? I don't know, I'm not feeling it from him you know?

As for the future of Peyton with the Colts, I say the Colts can't trade him because they basically can't. If they absolutely wanted to/had to they could, but the problem is all about time and money. If the Colts were to trade him, they couldn't do it until the beginning of the new league year in 2012. However, Peyton is due another $28 million before the new league year even starts. So regardless of whether or not they want to trade him, he's getting that cash (unless the Colts cut him). Not only that, but if the Colts decide they absolutely want to trade him, they will not only take that $28 million hit, but they'll also be on the hook for a cap hit of $38.8 million. Combine the two numbers and you get a total of $66.8 million dollars down the tubes just to trade him. And who knows what his market value would be, especially with the contract he has.

Let's just hypothetically say that the Colts could get two first and two second round picks for him, would that even be remotely close in value to $68.8 million? I don't think so. So I think in order to prevent a collapse of the franchise financially and to maintain high popularity with the fanbase in the future, they just can't take such a risk like that. Not only that, but how on earth could Jim Irsay and the Colts FO show themselves in public or talk in an interview or at a press conference after having just traded the greatest player in franchise history, a player that made the franchise, and arguably the greatest player in NFL history? That's like business suicide you know?

Basically what it all boils down to is this: If Peyton is healthy, he's going to retire a Colt. If he isn't, he's going to get cut and the Colts will draft Luck and pray to the heavens he is the next Peyton Manning and not Ryan Leaf. What the Colts will do with the first pick if they do keep Peyton is beyond me honestly. I personally would trade the pick and load up for 3-4 year sprint to the end of Peyton's career and hopefully win a stockpile of Lombardi trophies.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Agreed with the last sentence of 4th point. There is no way dude. NO WAY!

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yeah, didn't realize how his contract is set up. That's basically untradable contract situation. If they decide to keep Manning then they should be able to get a huge haul for the first overall pick. Still, I think they'll keep Luck.

I know what all of you are saying about Manning's greatness and Luck being an unproven commodity, but sticking with a 35 year old quarterback with a bad back when you can get a potential franchise QB is a bad long term move for the franchise. And lets be honest, even with Manning, it will take at least two years to make this team a contender again. At that point Manning is 37.

 

[Dak]

Manning can always be a team player and restructure the contrant.

 

[King Richard]

Why would he do that? He just signed it first off. Secondly, if he is indeed healthy and able to play next season he's worth every penny (obviously). Besides, I don't think he can restructure it.

 

[Dak]

Look. No player down to the last few years is worth that much, especially to a team that devoid of talent or desire.I know you want to stretch out the Peyton era in Indy, but it's a dumb move for the future. His skills are only going downhill from here. While his elite status will still place him over at least half the QBs in the NFL even after erosion, the Colts have seen what the future looks like when they aren't prepared for it. If they make the same mistake again they have no one to blame.

 

[King Richard]

He's worth that much when there is no drop off in performance, like, at all. Here's a few stat lines for you.

Career average:
360 comp, 64.9 comp%, 4,217 yards, 30.6 tds, 15.2 int

2010 season:
450 comp, 66.3 comp%, 4700 yards, 33 tds, 17 int

His stats in 2010 were above his average in completions, completion %, yards, and tds. There's no justification that he should take a paycut just because he's a year older than he was a season ago. As long as he is capable of playing without further injuring himself, there's no evidence to support that his skills are in decline or that he'll just suddendly drop off in talent. If anything, he might play better now that his neck injury is past him considering that his neck had been bothering him since the 2006 season. How scary would that be if he came back even better?

Personally as a Colts fan, I don't give a shit about the future of the franchise right now. There's no way of getting around the fact that once Peyton retires there's going to be a huge decline in play for the Colts no matter what they do, that's just the reality of the situation. The Colts this season are the same team they were last season when they went 10-6 and basically the same team they were in 2009 when they went 14-2*. The only difference is the loss of Peyton. And it's not even a matter of the team around him being that bad, it's that he's that good. So yes, if Peyton is healthy and is capable of playing another 3-4 seasons the Colts have to mortgage the future by resigning players like Wayne and Mathis, trading out of the first overall pick, and introducing as much talent to the roster as possible to win another championship or more. The time for building for the future has passed. Once Peyton is gone the entire organization is going to be rebuilt from the bottom up. And that's what the Colts fans want to see because there's no guarantee that whoever replaces Peyton is going to be worth a shit. The Colts were shit before Peyton and they'll more than likely be shit after him, but why be mediocre to shit with him? That makes no sense.

 

[Dak]

You are comparing his statistics before back surgery. I am not convinced that it won't affect his physical abilities, not to mention that 35-40 is where you see a decline in even an elite quarterbacks performance.

Joe Montana is an excellent example of this. At age 33 and 34 he had his two of his best statistical seasons ever. After that his numbers rapidly declined.

Dan Marino's best completion rating was in his 34th year.

John Elway did well in his 37th and 38th year, but that had more to do with the complete team he had, than his skills. His best season was at age 33.

Peyton has nowhere to go but down at age 36.

 

[skeptik]

The Colts don't have a better option at QB for the next several years than Manning, assuming his health. That's really all that matters.

 

[King Richard]

Well of course that's what I'm comparing, that's all there is to compare. But like I said, those stats were accumulated while he was already injured. So logically one can suppose that if he is cleared to play and his fully recovered from his surgery, he will play at least as good if not better than while he was injured. Obviously age is a factor with declining skills, but like I pointed out, even while injured and having started the twilight time period of his career, Peyton was playing above average even to his own standards. So why should he take a pay cut and be a "team player?" How can you justify forcing him to restructure his contract when you have no facts to support your side.

edit: We're basically making the same argument now that I think about it. I'm on the optimistic side, you're on the pessimistic side. Both are hypotheticals, but I think you're wrong so that's all that matters. !!!

 

[Dak]

Will the Colts challange for a Super Bowl again within that 3 year window Peyton has? Highly doubtful. The odds that the line is going to let him take dirt naps on a weekly basis, leading to reinjury are high.

SHould Peyton take a pay-cut, based on what he has given to the organization over the years? No. They didn't pay him enough before. That's why I thoroughly dislike a non-incentive based system. Guys work their ass off to get paid, get the beginning of maybe a backloaded contract, and then get cut before actually ever getting paid.

Pay the guys year by year based on their most recent performance and value. As it stands, if I was running the Colts, I would already be looking at how to get something for Peyton.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

like Jesus, I'm starting to think Tim Tebow is probably black.

 

[Ze Boy]

Just curious because I was reading on the bleacher report about the NFL failing to capitalize on the growing global market and I was wondering how the general NFL fan felt about the NFL wanting to expand outside the US and why you think it hasn't really taken off overseas already?