nsbm

[cthulufhtagn]

ok, in an attempt to bring a little intelligent discussion to this forum, what is everyone's opinion on nsbm? if a band holds a political viewpoint you disagree with do you hold it against them, or just judge them on the music alone?

obviously varg comes to mind, but there are of course many others out there. the reason i'm thinking about this topic is, i picked up drudkh's "autumn aurora" today and i have to say it's damn good. personally i disagree with the nsbm message, and i think the fact that it's present in this case holds me back from really liking it as much as i would if i didn't disagree with their politics.

then again, all "pure" black metal expresses hatred for mankind, so really all of it has a sort of kinship with nazism/fascism. many bm artists, for example malefic (aka xasthur) recognize this link and are accepting of the ns scene within the metal community, yet choose to remain independent of it. curiously, i don't find myself repulsed (i suppose i would say) by such an attitude, perhaps because i do recognize there is a big link there...but at the same time, i find fascism and "white power" inherently repugnant and childish viewpoints (let's blame everyone else for our problems).

i've never been a real big burzum fan, so i guess this is pretty much the first time my tastes in music and politics have come into real conflict.

any thoughts?

(p.s. if mike wants to add any comments i'm sure many of us would love to hear 'em )

 

[cthulufhtagn]

national socialist black metal....i use it here to refer to any band that espouses a fascist/nazi viewpoint; a lot of bands (such as drudkh) mix that with paganistic beliefs

 

[Manbient]

what is nsbm

Don't be an idiot.

Personally, i don't agree at ALL with the message, but i've never really been one to care much what the lyrical message of my metal is. Other genres, where lyrics are obvious and audible, i might be bothered more. I do wonder though... there's a lot of fucking DUMB metal fans, who might, just because some of their favorite bands do, start following that shit and it'll become a more "accepted" part of metal (i surely hope not). The interesting thing is though, music with such "passion" behind it, whether it be negative or not, really does let it shine through and some brilliant things can come through. In this case, i'm certainly more for those who do this nationalist socialist thing, because i get to listen to their kickass music.

I seem to keep distancing myself from metal fans these days though, so i guess it really doesn't make that big a difference to me if some fans start feeling like being a nazi is a fantasic thing to do. I won't be around to say hi anyway.

 

[TheButcher]

in general, i dont care about a band's political views, or any views. the only thing that matters is the music

I completely agreed

 

[Manbient]

get a life

*random stupid "u maed me mad" comment* i think i'm done paying attention to you.

 

[Shadows Skulk]

Once I downloaded a Nokturnal Mortum album and later saw their logo with the swastikas. I deleted that album because I refuse to even acknowledge such a childish viewpoint as nazism.
They don't deserve me listening to them.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

thanks for the responses so far, but trey and mumble--cmon guys let's keep at least one fucking thread civil, eh?

 

[NeverIsForever]

In most cases, political messages I don't agree with are not enough to stop me from listening to a song or album. For example, I think Bush is a complete idiot, but if Opeth decided for some strange reason to release a song about how wonderful the Bush administration is, I'd more than likely suffer through hearing good things about President Bush (not that there's much to say) for the sake of the music itself, because the expressed opinion isn't deliberately discriminatory, hateful or vindictive. But when Nazism is involved, I'd absolutely hold it against them. I can't willingly support (by paying for the album) a message that goes against everything I stand for, whether it's audible or not. Nazism/fascism is a stupid and childish philosophy--its supporters judge people on factors over which they have absolutely no control. So yes, I am opposed to nsbm. There is no shortage of kick-ass bands out there who can create amazing music without the "white power" message, so why support the ones that are trying to use their art to further a truly disgusting cause?

 

[Sanzen]

You have to keep in mind that several bands might be doing it for the sheer shock value of it. it IS black metal after all - now that the corpsepaint has been around for a while, they need something else to set them apart.

Also, IMO most black metal lyrics are pretty stupid anyway. This whole "we hate everyone!" viewpoint is just not how the real world works. I don't really put too much stock in ANYTHING I hear in black metal, lyric-wise.

 

[NFU]

In a genre that most of the time is primarily based on primitive, semi amateurish musical aproach, and at the LEAST, flirting with shock value/controversial imagery and dark concepts...its not at all surprising that black metal took the route of the NSBM movement.

I personally care none whatsoever about the messages these bands supposedly express (whether or not some are true to it is irrelevant and yet to be seen), but on occasion the music is important and or/worth listening to at least for someone who appreciates decent black metal.

of course Burzum comes to mind here, being that the count made that project easily in the top 10 (if not even top 5 for sure) of all time bm bands...and as most know, he brought facist/nazi/aryan connections to the music later on down the road (assuming he didnt have that in mind under the surface from the start). I feel those albums were no less significant or important for the genre MUSICALLY, even though i have no tolerance for such childish retardation in the message of the band.

Another nsbm band which from time to time has proven to be good to me is Graveland. Certainly less known due to Burzum's media frenzy draping most other bm acts in a shadow which probably will never be lifted...but musically they are semi different from most bands, and have their own niche to offer which has usually been consistant through their many album catalog at this point.

Aside from those 2 there are a few bands here and there affiliated with nsbm or similar political/social positions that have been "decent" to me, but it seems that often those bands get caught up in that instead of actually trying to write decent bm music. Maybe theyre just not very good at the music part, so they rely on their "message" to carry them to any sort of notoriety. Either way, i dont really care...not enough time in the day for that sillyness.

All in all....listen to music if you like it....agree or disagree with messages of bands if that suits you too....but in a world of 6 billion people of all different races, to try and uphold any sort of resistance and ignorant behavior in that way is just going to be immature, fruitless, and a waste of everyones time...and potentially hurtful to innocent people, or yourself.

 

[Aaron A.]

In most cases, political messages I don't agree with are not enough to stop me from listening to a song or album. For example, I think Bush is a complete idiot, but if Opeth decided for some strange reason to release a song about how wonderful the Bush administration is, I'd more than likely suffer through hearing good things about President Bush (not that there's much to say) for the sake of the music itself, because the expressed opinion isn't deliberately discriminatory, hateful or vindictive. But when Nazism is involved, I'd absolutely hold it against them. I can't willingly support (by paying for the album) a message that goes against everything I stand for, whether it's audible or not. Nazism/fascism is a stupid and childish philosophy--its supporters judge people on factors over which they have absolutely no control. So yes, I am opposed to nsbm. There is no shortage of kick-ass bands out there who can create amazing music without the "white power" message, so why support the ones that are trying to use their art to further a truly disgusting cause?

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Tyrmthaais]

I think as long as the band isn't infecting every aspect of their music with ravings about Hitler and white power, then NSBM is ok, of course that depends on the music as well, obviously a crap band shouldn't be listened to just because they're NSBM and aren't raving about Hitler. But if the music is there and it is pretty clean of political views, then I'd say it was ok. Using Burzum as an example, I know that Varg is very radical in his views and everything, but the lyrics aren't filled with things about killing jews and black people, I'm pretty sure there is no mention of it at all. I might be mistaken as I haven't read the lyrics in a while. The message of the music is entirely different than the message of stuff that I'm assuming other NSBM bands preach in their music. And the message of the music is what should matter. And incoroporating silly, controversal themes into your music just to get attention is a terrible way to make yourself seem relevant.

 

[MasterOLightning]

It doesn't matter to me at all. I rarely pay attention to lyrics; I seldom have the booklets with me. I'm not into NS, but I'd listen to NSBM. I'm not for brutal murder either, but I won't mind listening to bands that talk about it.

 

[deliverance]

It doesn't matter to me at all. I rarely pay attention to lyrics; I seldom have the booklets with me. I'm not into NS, but I'd listen to NSBM. I'm not for brutal murder either, but I won't mind listening to bands that talk about it.

basically how i feel.

i agree with most people in this thread in that band's messages and/or lyrics don't affect me. however, blatantly saying shit about praising nazism or hating blacks, or any of that garbage would probably bother me.

 

[metaluntildeath]

I would react to a Nazi band the same way I would a Christian band-laugh for 2 seconds then move on to something better.

 

[Risquit]

If Opeth were pro-Bush, I'd burn my CDs. Kidding.

 

[Ermz]

Well, postulating that I do actually disagree with the message, no I don't let it get in the way of my enjoyment of the music. To me it's no different than the death bands singing about gore, or Opeth doing the whole murder/death theme. It's just another avenue of expression and as somebody here has said, the whole black metal genre, in its conception and inherent furiosity goes hand in hand with National Socialism. I'm willing to accept both as part of the package.

 

[Justin S.]

To comment on this "scene" (which I find totally ridiculous becuase it in no way mirrors the supposed founding ideology) one would have to have a decent understanding of German National Socialism... which would cancel out just about all of you here. Childish? Killing blacks? NS is not cartoon KKK, it was a very real (and very flawed i might add) political and social movement that is very complex... to dismiss it so easily shows a profound lack of understanding.

 

[sands of the seas]

As many others, i don't care what a band thinks politically, nor what they do with their time outside of the music they create. I really don't give much of a shit about lyrics so i guess this helps a lot. Sure if lyrics are good that's a bonus, but i'm still going to listen to the music if they are horrendous.
In short, no.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

To comment on this "scene" (which I find totally ridiculous becuase it in no way mirrors the supposed founding ideology) one would have to have a decent understanding of German National Socialism... which would cancel out just about all of you here. Childish? Killing blacks? NS is not cartoon KKK, it was a very real (and very flawed i might add) political and social movement that is very complex... to dismiss it so easily shows a profound lack of understanding.

true, but keep in mind a lot of the braindead sheep that follow the movement don't have a particularly good understanding of it either.

i'm finding that a lot of bands, perhaps following varg's lead, have adopted a sort of pagan fascism, promoting the "values" of the so-called aryan race in combination with asatru or other pagan religions and extreme nationalism...there are bands that promote pagan and anti-christian ideals (amon amarth, other viking metal bands) without the nationalist/fascist aspects, which i find more politically acceptable...but i think good music is good music, and as long as the political message isn't too overt and i can ignore it for the time being...