Opeth and Free Jazz

Oswig said:
Yeah honestly I think people are just full of shit. Someone will hear a seventh chord or hear a drummer actually not playing on the backbeat and be like OMG DIS IS TEH JAZZ. Most of the time it's pretty (heir) apparent that whoever is making the said comparison doesn't know shit about the genre they're comparing to. I mean yes you can hear different influences in Opeth, Mikael plays some bluesy shit like the beginning of Hessian Peel, but when it comes down to it, they play progressive death metal (lately more on the prog side). But really most good bands have a variety of influences and ones that are just like PURE FUCKIN METAL usually suck anyway. Usually people who bring up these comparisons are the same type of people that will tell you they listen to "everything" like jazz and classical, which means they probably listened to Canon in D and Take Five once. Also the same kinda people who will tell you that Jimi Hendrix is the greatest guitarist ever.
Click to expand...

without the (slightly offensive?) stereotyping i agree with this almost unreservedly. freeform? opeth play their songs note for note live apart from occasionally extending certain codas, and slavishly compose them before entering the studio. nothing freeform is going on here.
 
Free jazz is improvisational music. Opeth don't improvise.
They have all sorts of element on their music, so yes, they have jazzy spots.
 
on another note, i really don't think a freeform metal band would work... imagine the horribly tangled lowend that would result in. 1 time out of maybe 5 billion something extraordinary would happen for about 5 seconds... by jingo someone should do it!
 
fps said:
without the (slightly offensive?) stereotyping i agree with this almost unreservedly. freeform? opeth play their songs note for note live apart from occasionally extending certain codas, and slavishly compose them before entering the studio. nothing freeform is going on here.
Click to expand...

Actually Mike said he usually doesn't remember the solos, and improvises them live. I know a lot of writing goes on in the studio for most the cds too. Mike does a ruff demo, and they go in with very little to no rehearsing although thats change for the past two cds.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN6cp-ZKuPA&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szADQBj-rpE&feature=related[/ame]
 
BlueSky said:
Actually Mike said he usually doesn't remember the solos, and improvises them live. I know a lot of writing goes on in the studio for most the cds too. Mike does a ruff demo, and they go in with very little to no rehearsing although thats change for the past two cds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN6cp-ZKuPA&feature=related
Click to expand...

yes i remember the thing about writing in the studio as well, what i meant to say was before recording/finishing the record. none of it's freeform though, only he's improv-ing when the solos be happ'nin
 
Labyrinth of Blindness said:
Lately, I have seen Opeth advertised and praised as a band that uniquely blends together progressive rock, metal, and free-form jazz.

While their blend is indeed unique, I fail to see any form of free-from :)lol:) jazz in Opeth's music. I'm not being critical, I just think this is a false label.

I myself am a huge jazz fan (from bop to fusion to avant garde to free form) and just don't see this to be true.

Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone else see it?
Click to expand...

It has none to do with free jazz. ><
 
BlueSky said:
Actually Mike said he usually doesn't remember the solos, and improvises them live. I know a lot of writing goes on in the studio for most the cds too. Mike does a ruff demo, and they go in with very little to no rehearsing although thats change for the past two cds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN6cp-ZKuPA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szADQBj-rpE&feature=related
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

He doesn't remember THAT solo 100%.
He doesn't improvise all the solos live! what are you talking about?
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD CLOSURE? HAVE YOU EVER LISTENED TO A LIVE VERSION OF A OPETH SONG?
Are you waiting for the drums transcription of that song in order to understand which elements lopez used?
 
Labyrinth of Blindness said:
Lately, I have seen Opeth advertised and praised as a band that uniquely blends together progressive rock, metal, and free-form jazz.

While their blend is indeed unique, I fail to see any form of free-from :)lol:) jazz in Opeth's music. I'm not being critical, I just think this is a false label.

I myself am a huge jazz fan (from bop to fusion to avant garde to free form) and just don't see this to be true.

Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone else see it?
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, Opeth definitely have a Jazzy quality to their music, especially on Still Life. Face of Melinda is very jazzy. A lot of Mendez's bass lines during breakdowns have a very smooth jazz quality to them too.
 
There are certainly hints of jazz (including small elements of free-form), but I can see how the label would be misleading, because they are definitely more of a prog death metal band than anything else. Folk is thrown around a lot as well, and if you were to play the right snippet from a song without hearing anything else, someone could be mislead into believing they are a folk group.

I think "free form" is being thrown around lately because of the abstract elements, especially in Watershed with the disharmonic, chromatic piano mash in Lotus Eater, and other "The Drift" inspirations floating about.

My favorite jazz musician is Keith Jarrett. He's famous for several live, improvisational piano performances, along with his trio work w/ Jack DeJohnette and Gary Peacock. Everyone should check out the The Köln Concerts (1975) if you haven't already:



It's an awesome experience to listen, absorb and realize the mastery Keith has over his instrument, which allows him to express himself completely and in the moment.

He also played extensively with Miles Davis back in the day:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
zacmenta said:
Progress so far:

Opeth: not free-form jazz

Miles Davis: Completely awesome
Click to expand...

:lol:
True, true

For the person searching for good jazz, check out any John Coltrane, early Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Wes Montgomery, and of course Miles Davis etc. If you are searching for jazz/rock fusion, check out the Mahavishnu Orchestra or Chick Corea with Return to Forever. Some killer latin-influenced jazz going on there. Incredible jams
 
Speaking of Miles Davis, has anyone heard his album "Aura"? Insane time signatures, bizarre harmonic sensibilities, an abrasive fusion-y feel that is borderline metal at times..... the first time I heard it I almost thought I'd put in a Meshuggah CD by mistake.

And how come no one's mentioned Al Di Meola?
 
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