OT, have you all heard about Jon Nödtveidt?

[Carrier Flux]

So what do you propose? Treat them like outcasts for the rest of their lives? Never give them a chance to function in society?

hmmm...you have an interesting point. even those who make such serious mistakes can be productive, and often have something to offer.

I would say it's fair to recognize their mistakes publicly, that they are serious enough not to be ignored. however simply whitewashing those actions would be as bad as condoning them.

All of this can get into moral debates as well...which is a particularly difficult subject unless everyone involved shares the same belief system.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I agree. Lets keep this forum friendly and free from ethical/moral debates.

I still have nightmares about the "missile" thread.

 

[STINNETT]

So what do you propose? Treat them like outcasts for the rest of their lives? Never give them a chance to function in society?

I actually didn't actively hold what Nodtveidt did against him, at least not these days. I loved the new album too.
I guess I actually thought that he was perhaps rehabilitated of the things he had done. Then he kills himself and tries to make a big satanic statment with it. It just disappoints me again. I don't understand that crap.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I seriously doubt that he tried to make a satanic statement. He was just depressed. that's what I believe anyway.

 

[STINNETT]

I agree. Lets keep this forum friendly and free from ethical/moral debates.

I still have nightmares about the "missile" thread.

I agree, I didn't start this thread to rouse any sort of debate. I was simply shocked by the news, and I thought it may still be news to some of you.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

It's all good!

 

[Carrier Flux]

I agree. Lets keep this forum friendly and free from ethical/moral debates.

sounds good.

 

[metalkingdom]

I've always known the correct story. He willingly and knowingly allowed it to happen. It's not any better to me. It's beyond fucked up.

I'm with you 110% on this. Murder (or accessory to) is an unforgivable offense. I am a big believer in the "eye for an eye" analogy. Not trying to keep the debate going, just speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has witnessed the miracle of three kids being born. Life is the most precious thing that humans have, not to be taken for granted and definitely not something that some douchebag feels he can just rob someone of just because he doesn't like your lifestyle.

 

[Kazrog]

So what do you propose? Treat them like outcasts for the rest of their lives? Never give them a chance to function in society?

That's not a debate that I want to get into on Andy's forum, for the sake of keeping things fun and informative here. Everyone has their views on sentencing, etc., and there are no right or wrong answers.

 

[Skyweaver]

Suicide - why bother ? death will come soon enough.....

theres a few articles circling around, concerned about copycat deaths, *shakesheads*......

 

[Aaron Smith]

This little piece from Blabbermouth is interesting:

[Jon Nödtveidt] spoke to Norwegian magazine Slayer in 2003 on the topic of suicide. Asked how he views the matters of suicide and whether taking your life is "worth it," Nödtveidt responded, "The Satanist decides over his own life and death and prefers to go with a smile on his lips when he has reached his peak in life, when he has accomplished everything, and aim to transcend this earthly existence. But it is completely un-Satanic to end ones own life because one is sad or miserable. The Satanist dies strong, not by age, disease or depression, and he chooses death before dishonor! Death is the orgasm of life! So live life accordingly, as intense as possible!"

Did he just change his mind about suicide being a bad thing? Did he feel as though he had accomplished all he wanted to accomplish? He obviously hadn't abandoned Satanism, because he killed himself while surrounded by a ring of lit candles, with an open copy of the Satanic bible in front of him. And, he told his girlfriend that he was "going away for a long long time, to Transylvania". ...what?

 

[Kazrog]

He obviously hadn't abandoned Satanism, because he killed himself while surrounded by a ring of lit candles, with an open copy of the Satanic bible in front of him. And, he told his girlfriend that he was "going away for a long long time, to Transylvania". ...what?

Maybe he's gonna be a zombie now!!!!!!

 

[JeffTD]

This little piece from Blabbermouth is interesting:

Did he just change his mind about suicide being a bad thing? Did he feel as though he had accomplished all he wanted to accomplish? He obviously hadn't abandoned Satanism, because he killed himself while surrounded by a ring of lit candles, with an open copy of the Satanic bible in front of him. And, he told his girlfriend that he was "going away for a long long time, to Transylvania". ...what?

Did you even read the interview you just posted? He said killing yourself because you're sad is what he's against, not killing yourself because you felt your time on earth was up, you accomplished what you wanted, and felt there was nothing more on this earth for you.

I'm not advocating suicide, I'm just saying, he didn't change his stance.



I personally think you guys are taking the whole accessory thing way too far... these guys were like 17, some 40 year old gay guy wants to fuck Faust in a forest. It was completely wrong for Faust to kill him, yes, but if Jon stepped in, we'd have a dead gay guy and a dead Jon laying in a forest. It's not like either of them were thinking straight at the time, and besides, we don't know any details as to what they were doing before hand, what kind of substances they could have been using, or what have you.

 

[Aaron Smith]

Did you even read the interview you just posted?

Yes.

Did he feel as though he had accomplished all he wanted to accomplish?

Satanism just doesn't make sense- that life is only valuable so long as you still haven't accomplished your self-appointed goals. No person knows the future or of what kind of significance they may be in any given future situation. Living for only yourself is a waste.

 

[JeffTD]

And that's your opinion - you're entitled to it.

Just don't preach it like it's the only way to go. He has every right to believe what he wants, just as you do.

 

[sorceron]

word

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Personally, I think religion is a waste of time. Believe in yourself: Not a fairy tale.

 

[JeffTD]

Personally, I think religion is a waste of time. Believe in yourself: Not a fairy tale.

That's exactly what Satanism is .

 

[Ola Englund]

Well this news is not a surprise really, since he got out from jail and done the new dissection album and touring, it has officially been made that the previous tour was supposed to be their LAST tour. There were millions of posters hangning around in Stockholm for the last Dissection gig. To bad I didn't go there.

 

[KnifeVariable]

Heard it a few days ago... what a way to exit. I've never been much of a fan of their past efforts, but Reinkaos struck me in such odd ways - man what a great album this is. I was lucky enough to see them live last year, I'm sure that show helped me build a relation to the band, it was very intense and emotional in ways I can't really word. Left as the upstanding antagonist he always imagined himself to be, good for him I guess.

The moral soapbox stuff is really uncalled for.