monoxide_child
New Metal Member
- Jul 30, 2008
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What is "tribalism" in your view Caladan, and why do you think it is a modern phenomenon?
yes i too would like the answer to this
What is "tribalism" in your view Caladan, and why do you think it is a modern phenomenon?
so basically what you're saying is that mullatto children shouldn't exist, which i agree with, not gonna say i really have a problem with black people, but these half-breed kids is something that wouldn't have happened without "society" and "civilization" telling us that we should be "tolerant" of "other races"
there was a racial study done on children that could crawl really well but could not yet walk, the kids were seperated from adults for a short moment, supervised with mirrored glass, and it was found that each kid ended up crawling pretty quickly towards the other kids of his own skin tone, the babies instictively seperating themselves into racial groups,
also up untill about 1700, there were lots of Europeans walking around that actually believed that black people were actually a whole different species than white people, it was this belief that led to the creation of the "elves" in fantasy fiction, the ones where they look like humans except in differences in skin tone/hair and eye color
in america you've got these extremely promiscuous people that don't have sex with their own race
you've got these black guys that call themselves "pimp" and brag about the huge number of women that they slept with last week, but with some of these black pimps, it's all white women
then you've got these blue-eyed-blonde girls that end up being really slutty, but they only fuck black guys
i can understand going the whole 9 yards and dating someone for several months, and that couple being a "bi-racial couple" according to you, this should happen all the time
but what i can't understand is the guys and girls that have a different sex partner every single night, but insistently refuse to sleep with their own race, this would not have happened if it hadn't been for the civil rights movement in the 60's, before that, a black person and a white person having sex with each other just wouldn't have happened because it wouldn't have been acceptable, but now it's not only acceptable, it's the statis quo, even though it's not really natural, this is a clear example of "civilization" overpowering "mother nature"
what?
actually i would say that "civilization" is the product of "tribalism"
the "tribes" of white people created "civilization" only after seperating themselves from the "tribes" of black people
Geography can create boundaries and so can lifestyle differences, religion, etc.
Our recent worldwide diaspora out of Africa has taken us to an extraordinarily wide variety of habitats, climates and ways of life. It is plausible that the different conditions have exerted strong selection pressures, particularly on externally visible parts, such as the skin, which bear the brunt of the sun and the cold. ....
In theory, that could be the full explanation for our superficial and visible variety, covering deep similarity. But it doesn't seem enough to me. ... I want to suggest that this heightened discriminability has evolved by sexual selection, [and that] our cultures, and sometimes our religions, encourage us to discriminate against outsiders, especially in choosing mates, those superficial differences that helped our ancestors to prefer insiders over outsiders have been enhanced out of all proportion to the real genetic differences between us.
... people tend to mate with others speaking the same language and praying to the same gods. So different languages and religions can play the role of food plants, or of mountain ranges in traditional geographical speciation. Different languages, religions and social customs can serve as barriers to gene flow.
There is controversy here. Some people think the initial separation has to be geographical, while others, especially entomologists, emphasise so-called sympatric speciation, meaning that the initial separation, whatever it is, is not geographical. Many herbivorous insects eat only one species of plant. They meet their mates and lay their eggs on the preferred plants. Their larvae then apparently “imprint” on the plant that they grow up eating, and they choose, when adult, the same species of plant to lay their own eggs. So if an adult female made a mistake and laid her eggs on the wrong plant, her daughter would imprint on that wrong plant and would, when the time came, lay her eggs on plants of the same wrong species. Her larvae then would imprint on the same wrong plant, hang around the wrong plant when adult, mate with others hanging around the wrong plant and eventually lay their eggs on the wrong plant.
In the case of these insects, you can see that, in a single generation, gene flow with the parental type could be abruptly cut off. A new species is theoretically free to come into being without the need for geographical isolation. Or, another way of putting it, the difference between two kinds of food plant is, for these insects, equivalent to a mountain range or a river for other animals. I am suggesting that human culture—with its tendency to distinguish between in-groups and out-groups—also provides a special way in which gene flow can find itself blocked, which is somewhat analogous to the insect scenario I have just outlined above.
Not sure what that's supposed to answer, but those are just theories. Nothing proven. It in no way supports your beleifs that interracial mixing is bad.
It mentions the long established fact that speciation occurs through physical separation which can occur through geographic isolation or through a change of lifestyle that leads some within the species to mate amongst their newly divergent group and not with others. Over thousands of years or longer this results in a new species.
Fact?? Since when does the phrase "I am suggesting" signify fact? Perhaps you misquoted what you posted, because that is in no way fact, it has absolutely no scientific backing.
Besides, Richard Dawkins is not exactly known for being an absolute in his field. There is a fair bit of speculation, and contrary arguments to his theories.
It's a fact that speciation occurs through separation. That was not what Dawkins was "suggesting" as it is as well established as any scientific fact. He was "suggesting" that humans could have separated into different races in more ways than merely geographic isolation - ie that we also have the possibility of isolation due to lifestyle divergence which could have the same effect as the standard geographic isolation.
It's like if I said I "suggest" that people can get sick by thinking negative thoughts - while I also accept that they get sick through disease. It wouldn't mean that the idea of people getting sick through disease was not established as a fact, nor would it mean that there is only one way to get sick.
Basically: speciation happens. You agree that is a fact don't you? The problem seems to be that you want to believe speciation is entirely or mostly caused by mixing of different strains.
This begs the question: (apart from did you make that up in your own head) where did the different strains come from - how did they become different?
This mixing idea would mean that the evolutionary tree would not be branching ever outwards but instead be a case of a whole lot of branches (which came from nowhere) mingling and becoming ever fewer. It makes no logical sense. Which isn't to say that hybridization doesn't ever occur in nature, but only that in the rare situation where a little hybridisation occurs on the periphery of a species this galvanises further divisions like a catalyst, and any resultant odd genes that give a survival advantage or are neutral but dominant can go on to spread amongst the population.
As an example, our ancestors in Europe may have interbred in a very limited way with Neanderthals, and certain genes may have been picked up and found their way into the rest of the population. (Neanderthals only evolved to be human in Europe). After that it was separation and kladogenesis as usual. In fact it never would have stopped.
all cultures, ethnics and races have always opposed cross breeding, its natural, get over it.
the desire for a eurphoric planet of entirely inter mixed humans for the sake of loosing this simple opposition is obsurd and makes me think of the movie Pleasentville where everyones behiavior is identical and pathetically plastic.
Oh please, stop speaking in extremes. That will never happen, there will always be differences. What is unnatural is trying to stop them.
I say: Do not encourage them, but do not stop them. And don't say "all cultures", how many cultures do you know anyway?
My issue with all of you clamouring for a halt to racial mixing is that your reasons, ALL OF THEM, are based on a false sense of superiority, a racist ideology from the jim crow era. If racial mixing is wrong, then let's stop it in all it's forms - any kind of tribal mix should be banned. No french-german unions, no Anglo-irish unions, no scotti-welsh unions. Let everything come under the microscope. Let's preserve ALL racial identity such as there is.
Hahahaha. have you read the mythology on elves? It developed mainly in ireland. I'm not sure there was any mention about laws forbidding people from intermarrying with the elves however, despite the fact that they were considered a different race. Remember, the ancient native americans also thought the spaniards were a race of men with horse body parts (Satyrs?). Mullato is an offensive word. Mixed children have ALWAYS existed.
Regarding the behaviour of children, studies have also shown that if children are left on their own without adult supervision, they quickly descend into barbarism. According to your logic then, we should all abandon civilisation and return to survival of the fittest barbarism?
I would like to make clear that I don't make any racial comparisons in the sense of race A being "superior" to race B. Non whites seem to have an inferiority complex however and appear to want to copy whites in various ways and be admired by us, while of course many whites like to look and behave like non-whites for equally insane reasons.
I know that whatever race I would be, I would be content to be of that race and would wish to promote my kind. I fully respect anyone of any race who feels that way, because that is how Nature made us. If there was some genuine "master race" that really deserved to be regarded with awe and who really had many admirable qualities (apart from the fact that wanting to be "master" over your inferiors is a massive flaw and never a good thing) - say a race of strong intelligent creative aliens with green skin and blue hair, who we could interbreed with - then I would NOT want my ethnicity to mix with them or live amongst them or sacrifice our own existence for their sake.
"Superiority" is only any use as a concept to make us feel special, in which case every ethnicity should (and does) feel superior to every other. Self esteem is necessary to fuel the will to live.
Caladan, I agree with you that we shouldn't call a halt to evolution - ie force all people to stay just as they are today. Evolution cannot be stopped. It is beyond humans to stop it, we can slow it by thwarting natural selection, but even this is like building a dam which will one day burst with devastating results unless we use humane means to figure out who Nature would not allow to live. Evolution would continue to make each ethnicity branch into further groups, and eventually further races (the unsuccessful going extinct as did our more apelike ancestors).
There are various theories on how humans would evolve based on our artificial lifestyles and the characteristics that are likely to proliferate.
no, my logic is to start having "plato's republic" (maybe something else similar) come into existence where everyone wishing to raise children must go through "parenting classes" before being given custody of a child
According to your logic then, we should all abandon civilisation and return to survival of the fittest barbarism?
Hang on a minute, let's analyse this logically. Let's start from the post slavery era. If there was no jim crow and the accompanying oppression and blatantly racist laws that followed, America would be a proper melting pot, not quite white, yet not black. As it is, what is referred to as white america is extremely unalike any european nation because of the amounts of mixing between white people of various different european nationalities that has happened.
Equating interracial relationships to "pimps" and blue-eyed blondes is a bit of an over-simplification don't you think? Not all black guys associate themselves with these pimps, and not all white women regard themselves as the blue-eyed-blondes you referred to.
The civil rights movements was not primarily about getting people to intermarry, that just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The civil rights was about equality for black people, and the cancellation of the (dis)advantages based on race. The reason why people didn't intermarry before the civil rights movements is because of the miscegenation laws that were passed by the blatantly racist governments of the day, and because of harassment by the KKK. NOT because people didn't want to.
That said - I don't beleive anyone should be pressured into an ioterracial relationship, neither do I beleive anyone should be pressured out of one. Everyone should be free to choose their parents regardless of racial background.