Satanism and Metal

[Henrik Main]

To NocturnalSun:

The Pope is an old, homophobic, über-conservative fart. Can you please explain to me
why, according to Catolicism, homosexuals are considered as lesser beings?

Do you really think that you would've been so firm in your belief if you went to
a normal, non-religious school? I do not think so. It's like when some girls I know
say that they belong to the Jehova's Witnesses (some religious cult, which among other things
is against equality between men and women) because they want to, not because
their parents told them to.

And how can you listen to music with such a blasphemic image as Dimmu Borgir and still
claim that you're a true Christian?

Just curious. I'm not attacking you or anything.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Jehova's Witnesses are so funny.

 

[Erik]

because i believe the majority of the earth's population is buddhist.

You do, eh?

 

[Heliologue]

You do, eh?

how accurate is your source. and further to the point, the aggregate "christianity" category is utter bollocks, as these denominations cannot be considered one and the same.

actually, what i should have said was that i was under the impression that buddhists constituted the largest religious following, not the majority.

 

[speed]

Buddhism isnt really widely practiced anywhere but southeastern asia. Its been repressed by the chinese- and only like 5% of Indians are buddhist- so I think you may be mistaken on your buddhist claims.

I think Nocturnal Sun, is quite intelligent, and is somewhat well informed on the message and doctrines of christianity- hes just not very good at defending himself- so give him a break- my god some of these atheists on this site proslethyze(sp) even more than a Mormon.

 

[Post_Scriptum]

i personally think that atheism is a religion...

you worship your god... yourself

 

[Benzine]

"Please, Ezekiel. My job's not to decide who lives and dies. My business is with the soul. And I have never damned a soul who didn't thoroughly deserve it. Mother Nature is a completely different story. She kills indiscriminately, good and evil alike. Why she gets all the good press, I'll never know."

-- The Devil, Brimstone

chuckle chuckle

 

[NocturnalSun]

thanks, speed. from what I've seen since I joined this board, atheists far outnumber christians, so I am a minority and what could be funner than attacking a minority? hell we all do it here in the US, it's a shame it happens... yes I may not be able to defend myself well on here, but I have some important points to make to some of you:

HenrikMain - I am still Christian and a firm believer because I do not listen to metal as a whole. I focus in on the guitarwork mainly. I could care less about the lyrics. Most of the time in metal, you can't even hear them while they;re being growled or screamed. take a look at Crimson Moonlight. They are a Christian heavy metal band. It can happen, but it most often doesn't. i prefer music over lyrical content, so I don't even watch for content.

takinbackthemusic - Whooo boy if I wanted to piss you off, I'd go off on an hourlong religious discussion and give you a full lecture of Christianity. I'm sure that would piss u off royally, so I'll spare you. naturally, instinct tells you I'm young and naive so you choose not to listen because what I'm saying is 'force-fed X-ian blind bullshit.' you never grew up with me, you hardly know me, and if you did you'd see that I and the friends I choose to hang out with are not quite the normal Christians. We have a lot of questioning we do about our faith. but I'm sure you're paying attention to me about as much as you are the the walls of your room, so I'm not even going to try to explain everything, as I said before, because you can't teach those with hands over their ears. you and the other atheists here apparently despise anything and everything that has to do with monotheism. In America we have freedom of religion, but apparently here at UltimateMetal, we do not. I've been seriously debating on leaving beacuse every topic I get into ends up in a religous dispute because I happen to use Christian viewpoints instead of atheistic. and I'm sure you're happy tohear that since you could give 2 shits about me...

Guardian of Darkness - yes, Jehova;s Witnesses are funny because they use a sort of 'mind-control'. have you been to one of the meetings? they hand out questionnaire's to the participants that list both the questions and the answers. They then ask them to hold up their hands if they have an answer (which is on the sheet) everyone does, and if one person says something different, they'll reply "No that's not the answer we're looking for". hmm... strange indeed

Post Scriptum - atheism a religion? you ever given any thought to who created you? if you choose yourself as a god, then it must have been you eh? I'd like to hear the atheistic view on how creation started. go ahead, enlighten me.

I hope that clears up a couple of things, though I doubt that's the end of it. I'll undoubtedly get replies as I usually do and then I'll have to comment on those too, so you see all of this is really going nowhere since my beliefs as a Christian will not change just from hearing your beliefs as atheists, and I'm sure your beliefs whatever they may be as atheists will not change just because of mine as a Christian. that make sense?

 

[AjDeath]

your contradictions sound similar to the message I saw on the internet once talking about 9/11 being a HOAX (for all who don't know its the World Trade Center being bombed by airplanes and falling). This is very similar to that. I know what I know about my religion is true, yet you still blabber on some mindless talk about Jesus killing a man for bumping into him. I've seen plenty like you who focus and home in on one or two points that 'contradict' my religion. Most of the shit your'e reading is either Bullshit or not proven to be fact yet. Also, what was defined as 'swear' words back then is not defined as swear words now. did they have Fuck back then? i think not my friend... Shit? nope... Ass? yes, but that meant a donkey back then... Dick? Cunt? Motherfucker? nope....

How can you say that you absolutely know in your heart of hearts that what you have been taught about your religion is exactly true? To be a teacher by definition is to teach from experience, things learned by man and accumulated and passed on by other men who have there own distinct belief system and in all cases wish to convey it on to others-ALL TEACHERS DO THIS, Some may be more laidback, but that does not mean that their own image of life will not be imposed unto you, and most do it without realizing it.

I was a born again Christian once, I know of what you speak, I listened to metal also and went through these same arguments on this very board. One day I realized that I can not possibly know the truth of this, neither can your teachers no matter how much you trust them. I went about my spiriualality in a very different way, in my time of need(very cliche but true) I asked God for guidance and peace and got it, I believe there is a God, but I know do not pretend to know him, how can I percieve soemthing like that? This has been my beef with Christianity in genral for a long time, how can one know the nature of God? Yet Christians claim his Son/God came down and told us exactly what he/it feels, very convenient, it laid the foundation for oppression that has still not ended, it sickens me and the recent BS happening in the Church only strengthens my resolve that the Church has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with tangible, human desires. The right way is your way, not some teachers and/or priests way, something this personal cannot be taught or coaxed into being, it has to come from you and you only.

I do not try to pretend how any of this existence happened, but I agree with you about something needing to push it along. What gets me is all of these scientists with their fucking theories that are treated as scientific law, that always pisses me off, there is no tangible evidence to support either claim, it just depends in what God you believe in, The Biblical, or God Humanity? What everyone needs to do is shelve it, I do not give a flying shit what the fuck you believe in, if you let your beliefs get in the way of human interaction and you let it bias your view of the world, you need to take stock and find out what you are doing wrong, to me life is more important than your beliefs, something Christianity has overlooked throughout the centuries.

 

[NocturnalSun]

very formidable proposal on your behalf. we cannot even begin to imagine what God is like, because he is beyond our understanding. I don't really know what to say to you, tho... I'm kind of blank right now. I cant really find the words to say what I'm thinking right now. The only thing I know for sure is that my views as a Christian do NOT interfere with my relations with other people until they try to preach or force their ways on me. I'm sure you would do the same, as everyone is on this thread. In a way, you cannot say that you are not in some minute way thinking in the back of your head 'this guy is a Christian'. if the words Christian and NocturnalSun enter into your mind, you're already subtly letting your beliefs get in the way a tiny bit.

also, I know that I cannot vouch for my religion being the one true one. However, you can't vouch for yours either, now can you? Science can't prove there isn't a God, monotheism can't prove there IS, polytheism can't prove their gods exist, and atheism have no gods/God which leaves them with nothing except themselves and in their mind, there is no creator of life if they see themselves as their own god. Nobody can prove anything. As I have said before, Faith = belief in the unknown. Physics states that not knowing certain things is acceptable.

I am still waiting to hear what Atheists think about creation and where the hell creation came from. Believing that there is no God or gods is the most stuck-up form of religion ever seen. WHO THE HELL CREATED EXISTENCE IF THERE IS NO GOD? explain to me THAT by PROVEN FACT, not by a hypothesis.

 

[Heliologue]

I am still waiting to hear what Atheists think about creation and where the hell creation came from. Believing that there is no God or gods is the most stuck-up form of religion ever seen. WHO THE HELL CREATED EXISTENCE IF THERE IS NO GOD? explain to me THAT by PROVEN FACT, not by a hypothesis.

then who created god?

 

[NocturnalSun]

Who created the person/thing/spirit/being that created God? we can keep going in circles like this all night

 

[Abou]

Who created the person/thing/spirit/being that created God? we can keep going in circles like this all night

We can. Apparently you cannot. By your reasoning, if God always just was, why not for the Universe?

 

[NocturnalSun]

no fuck that, I've been asking for awhile now and I still haven't gotten an answer because you're completely sidestepping my question. What do Atheistic people believe is the origin of creation? instead of answering for fear of questioning your own atheistic beliefs, you continually sidestep the question.

 

[ffanatic]

As far as this thread goes, I think some of the people involved should stop arguing over who is right, and start pondering thoughtfully over what is the nature of what is true. Most major religions do not encourage questioning, and it is only through questioning that anyone can ever hope to gain any insight into the true nature of the divine.

*grabs some popcorn and waits for Satori*

 

[NocturnalSun]

What do you think I;ve been trying to do. i never said my religion was the right one. I've been asking thoughtful inciteful questions, but have been getting no answers...

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Maybe the reason people connect Satan w/Metal music started because of bands like Led Zeppelin supposedly putting backwards messages on their recordings.

Check out www.bghadami.btinternet.co.uk/backmask.htm

 

[Benzine]

no fuck that, I've been asking for awhile now and I still haven't gotten an answer because you're completely sidestepping my question. What do Atheistic people believe is the origin of creation? instead of answering for fear of questioning your own atheistic beliefs, you continually sidestep the question.

Origin of creation eh? A pretty darm massive gargantuan mother of all bangs. Then huge clouds of gas and dust which collapse under their own gravity to form planets/stars depending on their size. Then elements are forms in the stars due to the massive pressure.

So why don't you reply to the earlier reply about 'if god has always just been there why can't the universe?'

lots of love, me

 

[AjDeath]

Origin of creation eh? A pretty darm massive gargantuan mother of all bangs. Then huge clouds of gas and dust which collapse under their own gravity to form planets/stars depending on their size. Then elements are forms in the stars due to the massive pressure.

So why don't you reply to the earlier reply about 'if god has always just been there why can't the universe?'

lots of love, me

That is not the origin of creation, that is the act of creation, I will have to defend NocturnalSun here, as he said before, if energy cannot be created or destroyed, then how can you not see his question of WHAT? What happened? I think his point is that you blindly follow a set of beliefs and then you accuse him of the same thing, BUT he readily admits it, whereas you think you do not, it is weird but I think you attack him because you see something of yourselves in him, a Christian, something you may or may not despise, you are both just defending your beliefs. Before it was him defending his beliefs, now, when he is questioning yours you give him no answer and then give him a ridiculous question to pounder, no, no friend, that is not how it works, yours is not a life of infallibility, your beliefs are just as much in question as his, and don't ask me to tell me why, if you cannot see why, well, I don't know what to tell you.


Argument and discussion are a good thing, but you people have yet to realize that it is how a person lives his life that is important, not his belief structure. And any person that lets his beliefs get in the way of the act of living should actually reflect upon what he is doing.

 

[Benzine]

Next time you post can you stand up? When you're sat down your voice is muffled.