The Beliefs Of Amon Amarth

[Tyra]

That goes for Tyra too?, The viking religion didnt last for long, i mean here in Sweden today and all the other scandinavian countries there are churches everywhere, i f people could here the voices of gods, do u really think they would change religion. It aint like the christian forced the north to believe in christianity, instead people just changed because it was sort of a fashion.

I was born and raised in Sweden. Came here with my religion as an adult.
You're obviously not from the Swedish town that I'm from. Blòt is done with animal sacrifices that are hung in trees as they have always been done to this day there (to the great dismay of the local animal rights activists). Apparently it has lasted longer than you thought. It's alive and kicking here, too.

As for the religion not being forced upon people: The Saga of Thorstein Staff-struck tells us that "Anybody who offends a more powerful man can hardly expect to wear out many more new shirts." Well, you sort of had no choice but to follow what the kings decided on or they lopped off your head. If you don't define that as forced, that's up to you. Some kings were not forced to convert but chose conversion as a political tool (Harald Blåtand), while others (Jarl Haacon) were persecuted right to death for their faith, and others chose not to die for their faith when faced with the option (Svein Forkbeard). The Christians in all the countries surrounding Scandinavia were forbidden to do bussiness with any trader who was not Christian. Puts a bit of pressure on folks, don't you think?

As for hearing the gods AND goddesses, you obviously don't. I do, and you cannot tell me any different, so don't even go there.

 

[Celtik Militia]

if i won the 180 million euros of the euromillion (man thats a fucking enormous sum) i'd build a pagan temple. that would be so cool!
it would have three parts to it, the celtic one, the germanic one and the jupiterian one.

is odinism a recognised and official religion in scandinavia? what i find ridiculous in france is that celtic paganism is hardly recognised by the state although apparently, in Brittany (the celtic region of france), there are more celtic druids than christian priests.

 

[Tyra]

HEHE,
Sleipner or whatever your name is, dont u thnk u souond a little silly? Calling yourself a heathen? Of course amons music is great but come on... Your from New Jersey, have u ever been to sweden, denmark or Norway, i mean on what grouonds are you a heathen.

Hallå finns några skandinaver där ute eller? e d bara massa jänkare och sånt?

Hallå, jo tack, det finns flera stycken.

I choose not to use heathen or pagan as they are derogatory terms imposed upon us by people who had no clue as to what they were on about. Both words are, however, the correct English term for what Sleipnir and I are, as most people outside of Scandinavia do not speak Swedish and cannot even pronounce "asatroende", never mind understand what the hell it is. Your particular part of the world does not have a very large population, and not very many people outside of sScandinavia would know what the hell you were on about if you said "Iam asatroende". Even that is an incorrect term, as we believe in both the Aesir and the Vanir.

You'd do well to think more carefully about your choice of words when you post. "Silly" is not a word I would use in regards to Sleipnir. He is more heathen in his ways than many I've seen IN SWEDEN. He's also a big boy and can defend himself quite eloquently (as you've noticed by now), so I'll just shut up on that subject.

Were you under the (mistaken) impression that our gods and goddesses only were able to rule your particular part of the world and not "yankees and such" (I bet Belgar, Tomasz and co would be thrilled to know what choice of words you used to describe them just then, dear...)? If so, what do you base that on? Just wondering, becuase the way I reacall the Eddas, Odin, Vile and Ve created ALL of the world from Ymer's carcass, not just Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

execelent posts.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

if i won the 180 million euros of the euromillion (man thats a fucking enormous sum) i'd build a pagan temple. that would be so cool!
it would have three parts to it, the celtic one, the germanic one and the jupiterian one.

is odinism a recognised and official religion in scandinavia? what i find ridiculous in france is that celtic paganism is hardly recognised by the state although apparently, in Brittany (the celtic region of france), there are more celtic druids than christian priests.

What about a Slavonic part?
I don't know if Asatru is recognised in Sweden, but I don't think it is. Same probably for Norway and Denmark. We pay taxes to the church and you have to do something in order not to (still haven't figured out what to get of that 'list'). In Iceland I think they recognise it though.

 

[Sleipnir]

What about a Slavonic part?
I don't know if Asatru is recognised in Sweden, but I don't think it is. Same probably for Norway and Denmark. We pay taxes to the church and you have to do something in order not to (still haven't figured out what to get of that 'list'). In Iceland I think they recognise it though.

Yes, it is nationally recognized and subsidized by the gov't in Iceland.

 

[Tyra]

What about a Slavonic part?
I don't know if Asatru is recognised in Sweden, but I don't think it is. Same probably for Norway and Denmark. We pay taxes to the church and you have to do something in order not to (still haven't figured out what to get of that 'list'). In Iceland I think they recognise it though.

the swedish church has separated from the state. The taxes technically speaking are supposed to maintain th heritage, that is, the old churches as a national treasuer, sort of. I don't know what that means as far as recognition is concerned. There are asatru groups that cn legally perform weddings, though, just like a JP can here. In Iceland it is, like Sleipnir said, recognized again. There was some to do about it in regards to Denmark recently, but I cannot remember the outcome. Will have to ask my Danish friends in my felag.

 

[DragonKeeper]

hmm..i didnt know that

 

[Mad Dog Ulfhednar]

I just noticed something I stated earlier in this thread was worded wrong and I just wanted to clear it up. When I stated that it was the blood that counts and not nationality, what I meant was that a Germanic person is a Germanic person regardless of where they live. I didn't mean for it to sound discriminating because that wasn't my intention. Sometimes I don't word things like I'd like to and they come out sounding backwards. Asatru is more of a calling than anything and doesn't discriminate against non-Germanic people although naturally everyone should look into the native beliefs of their ancestors before deciding on a path. Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Are only Jarl's kin allowed into Valhalla?

 

[Mad Dog Ulfhednar]

Are only Jarl's kin allowed into Valhalla?

I guess it all depends on what constitutes a Jarl or Chieftain now days (General, Colonel, Seargent etc.) I guess that means to die in battle. Many people believe that anyone that dies in battle goes to Valhalla but I think it's more than that - to be an "elite" warrior that dies in battle or rather the best of the best so to speak. Of course I know many(myself included) who believe that it isn't limited to the battlefield but mortal physical confrontations at home or on the streets etc. It truly is one of those subjects that can be touchy. I myself would like to think that getting to the "Hall up High" isn't restricted to the battlefield because that would mean I don't stand a chance. I got as far as the USMC recruiters office before they denied me for having a skin disorder they believed was contagious, hehe.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Too bad for you.
There are, however, some physical attributes assigned to Earls as well, as opposed to Carls and Thralls.

 

[Sleipnir]

It definitely is a touchy subject, but according to the lore, it is reserved for those slain in battle, there are numerous references in the Poetic Edda to it, mentioning that even some of the Valkyries...and as I am sure you are aware,means "choosers of the slain"... names are weapon names, it mentions in the notes the meaning of Einherjar as "single combatants". It is debatable as to what will constitute admission into Valhalla yet the lore does state the criteria. It could be noted however that in today's times "battle" could mean a variety of physical confrontations, I guess those wishing to go will find out.

Grímnismál St.8: Hollander Trans.
Gladhome is hight the fifth where golden shimm'ring
Vallholl is widely spread out;
here Óthin chooses every day
weapon-slain warriors.

Gylfaginning Jean Young translation
pg.48-Oðin is called All-Father because he is the father of all the gods. He is also called Valfather because all who fall in battle are his adopted sons. He allots them to Valhalla and Vingólf, and then are called Einherjar.


pg63-Then Gangleri said: 'You say that all the men that have fallen in battle since the beginning of the world have now come to Oðin in Valhalla......

 

[Celtik Militia]

What about a Slavonic part?
I don't know if Asatru is recognised in Sweden, but I don't think it is. Same probably for Norway and Denmark. We pay taxes to the church and you have to do something in order not to (still haven't figured out what to get of that 'list'). In Iceland I think they recognise it though.

no slavonic part cause the real french people are of celtic/roman/germanic descent so there
that sucks that you must pay taxes for church.

 

[VikingSF]

It definitely is a touchy subject, but according to the lore, it is reserved for those slain in battle, there are numerous references in the Poetic Edda to it, mentioning that even some of the Valkyries...and as I am sure you are aware,means "choosers of the slain"... names are weapon names, it mentions in the notes the meaning of Einherjar as "single combatants". It is debatable as to what will constitute admission into Valhalla yet the lore does state the criteria. It could be noted however that in today's times "battle" could mean a variety of physical confrontations, I guess those wishing to go will find out.

Grímnismál St.8: Hollander Trans.
Gladhome is hight the fifth where golden shimm'ring
Vallholl is widely spread out;
here Óthin chooses every day
weapon-slain warriors.

Gylfaginning Jean Young translation
pg.48-Oðin is called All-Father because he is the father of all the gods. He is also called Valfather because all who fall in battle are his adopted sons. He allots them to Valhalla and Vingólf, and then are called Einherjar.


pg63-Then Gangleri said: 'You say that all the men that have fallen in battle since the beginning of the world have now come to Oðin in Valhalla......

I'm curious whether it was considered a requirement to actually die in battle, or whether valor in battle was good enough, even if you actually died in a different way. For instance, a very brave and honorable warrior who had fought many battles and done many noble deeds died from disease or accident, or even was such a successful warrior that no one could kill him, and he eventually died of old age - would he still be chosen?

I suppose that since, as I understand it, Odin was considered to be a very wild and unpredictable god, there may not have been consistency to who he did and did not choose.

 

[Celtik Militia]

well actually, i believe those who die in battle are already chosen by the gods and valkyries. which means that before the battle the divinities choose who dies to make him an einherjer. its not like the christian thing of deciding (in trial) who's going to heaven or hell once the person is dead, here the decision of who goes to Walhalla is decided long before the person is dead. but that doesnt mean all those who die in battle go to walhalla, just those who are chosen before the programmed death and these have to die in the battle for it is their fate.
if a great warrior never dies cause he's too good that means the gods didnt want him in Walhalla for some reason, or else they would have granted him death on some battle.

well thats what i understood of it.

 

[Sleipnir]

I'm curious whether it was considered a requirement to actually die in battle,

According to the lore, yes.

or whether valor in battle was good enough, even if you actually died in a different way. For instance, a very brave and honorable warrior who had fought many battles and done many noble deeds died from disease or accident, or even was such a successful warrior that no one could kill him, and he eventually died of old age - would he still be chosen?

According to the lore, no and if Tyra could back me up on this. I think there were instances in the lore of warriors near death wounding themselves as to gain entrance, for some reason that is sticking with me but off the top of my head not really sure.

I suppose that since, as I understand it, Odin was considered to be a very wild and unpredictable god, there may not have been consistency to who he did and did not choose.

Exactly, there are instances of him giving victory to those who may not have "deserved" it and instances of him changing his mind and giving the victory to another.

Lokasenna St.22
Loki said:
"Hush thee Óthin; not ever fairly
didst allot men luck in battle;
oft thou gavest,as give thou should'st not,
mastery to worser men"

Yet Odin kinda "defends" this method in Eiríksmál St. 7 by saying he needs the best heroes for the final fight.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

dont ever let this thread get to page 2.

 

[Tyra]

Sleipnir wrote: "According to the lore, no and if Tyra could back me up on this. I think there were instances in the lore of warriors near death wounding themselves as to gain entrance, for some reason that is sticking with me but off the top of my head not really sure."

Yes, I have no problem backing that up. Besides from the above, there are plenty of instances in the lore of men lamenting having to die in a bed from illness, or just from old age, after having been warriors all their lives./T

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

or hanging themselves in an ash tree or jumping off their "ättestup" (familycliff?)