the election, and stuff..

[phlogiston]

Here's another reason to get rid of Howard:

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,10976890^15306^^nbv^,00.html

Also, he's exploiting a loophole in the anti-spam laws to send unsolicited political email messages. And he contracted the work to his sons IT company.

BOOO!

 

[spawn]

If they were done and on their last legs why didnt they surrender? Why didnt Japan surrender after the first bomb was dropped on them and it was obvious they could never win? Germany was VERY close to having a bomb of their own to use and if they had we would all be fucked. The war had to be ended quickly, you cant stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, the entire world had been at war for 6 years, and they knew the Germans were close to making their own atomic bombs.

http://www.brown.edu/Students/Catalyst/pre2001/archive/spring98/articles/bomb.html

Germany and Japan were the aggressors, they wouldnt have had the bombs dropped on Japan had they not tried to invade other countries. Thats why I dont see the US dropping the atomic bombs as a war crime.

 

[JonBonJovi]

Gee this thread was being our most peaceful,even thread ever now it has turned into a bloodbath.Of poor me's and fuck you's! *shakes head in shame at what we all can crawl too.*

 

[Kem]

Geez, looks like the ALP sure rubbed you the wrong way Steve
I don't blame you for mistrusting the ALP, but the thing that bothers me is that you're criticising a party thats running for election this week, because of something that has happened years ago, due largely to the actions of a few who probably have nothing to do with the ALP now. I don't believe that YOU believe if the ALP came into power on October 10 there's going to be a sudden anti-Croat agenda. So what's your point exactly? Whitlam was a bastard? Most politicians are.

Might I point out that John Howard and co. succeeded extraordinarily in giving refugees a bad name (thanks mostly to the pathetic children-overboard saga) herding them into detention centres, contravening human rights on the basis that they could be letting terrorists and other undesirables into the country ? Hmm...government party, marginalising a minority group on the unfair premise that they're bad...sound familiar?

I say good on you for sticking to your guns, if you and your family are better off under a Coalition government then there's no point me or anyone else preaching to you about why you should vote for the ALP. And I'd agree with you that the Coalition's handling of the economy has been better than any Labour government, for quite some time. But along with our neat little budget surplus we've got a PM that has blatantly lied to the Australian public, endangered the lives of Australian soldiers by sending them to Iraq to help clean up a mess that America, not Australia made and doing all sorts of other incredibly dumb things like not ratifying the Kyoto agreement?

I'm probably in less of a position to say this than most other people here since I still live at home, but at the end of the day I'm thinking some things are more important than being better off by $100 a week and not having to pay high interest rates.

 

[phlogiston]

some things are more important than being better off by $100 a week and not having to pay high interest rates.

 

[Spiff]

Hey Spiff, what you think of me does not bother me. I do what I do and will continue to do so. So that's the way you handle yourself when you disagree with someone, is it? Tell it to me when you see me. I'd like to to look me in the eye when you do so. The Metal Warriors video show has not changed it's format since 1997 so the Dungeon DVD is no different. Peter, Magz and myself have hosted them and now Simon and in future, there will be girlies too.

Spiff, the tool is YOU!

Hey, I never said I wasn't a tool.

I apologise for what I posted, as Bri-Bri said I didn't go about it in the most intelligent of ways. Firstly, I had just woken up and the first thing I read was this thread, and secondly I got all worked up because I saw all this pro-Howard stuff and anyone who knows me will confirm that I hate conservative politics and will fight it with every fibre of my being (as long as it doesn't require any effort on my part, and as long as I'm not expected to offer any actual intelligent contributions to the discussion).

And thirdly, yes, I'm narrow-minded enough that someone's politics usually DO affect how I think of them and so I make rash statements such as this.

I'll talk about the DVD in the DVD thread.

 

[Kem]

If they were done and on their last legs why didnt they surrender? Why didnt Japan surrender after the first bomb was dropped on them and it was obvious they could never win? Germany was VERY close to having a bomb of their own to use and if they had we would all be fucked. The war had to be ended quickly, you cant stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, the entire world had been at war for 6 years, and they knew the Germans were close to making their own atomic bombs.

http://www.brown.edu/Students/Catalyst/pre2001/archive/spring98/articles/bomb.html

Germany and Japan were the aggressors, they wouldnt have had the bombs dropped on Japan had they not tried to invade other countries. Thats why I dont see the US dropping the atomic bombs as a war crime.

Spawn, it is very simple and I will explain it again just for you

If you want to drop a bomb on another country that is threatening you, the idea is that you drop that bomb on the source of the threat. Unless the Japanese government were constructing atomic bombs in the houses of Japanese civillians, then they had no reason drop bombs on said civillians and thus what they did was a war crime.

In any case, the bombing of Japan was not isolated to just the two A-bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that was merely the grand finale (so to speak) of a totally unjustified, unncessary bombing campaign that was aimed wrongfully at innocent people. Even the former US defence minister during WWII acknowledges this.

 

[Gavin]

the thing that pisses me off is that they have held the election on the Bathurst weekend! Now i have to be sober enough to come all the way down the mountain, find my way into town and vote I think its to late to get a postal vote.
And for the record im voting labour.

 

[MetalWarriorSteve]

If they were done and on their last legs why didnt they surrender? Why didnt Japan surrender after the first bomb was dropped on them and it was obvious they could never win? Germany was VERY close to having a bomb of their own to use and if they had we would all be fucked. The war had to be ended quickly, you cant stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, the entire world had been at war for 6 years, and they knew the Germans were close to making their own atomic bombs.

Steve says: Germany had already lost by the time the bombs were dropped.
Japan was on its last legs but the Japanese were never say die. Surrender was not in their vocab.

(Spawn) Germany and Japan were the aggressors, they wouldnt have had the bombs dropped on Japan had they not tried to invade other countries. Thats why I dont see the US dropping the atomic bombs as a war crime.

History books are written by the winners of wars. The first aggressor and the biggest was Stalin and the Soviet Union. So why did they not bomb the commies? Why did they not recognise Independence of the breakaway Nations when they were seeking freedom from Soviet rule?

It's because they had their own agenda.

Xena, I don't really swear but if somebody is going to tell me that I have no right to be who I am, to deny me the freedom to call myself of Croatian background, that's not about policies in a Democratic policies in a peaceful country that makes Australia special.

That was denying a child their basic freedom. That was threatening and tormenting a young child. Australia is about deciding how children will go through schooling and what the best way it is to provide childcare and NOT tormenting children. So for the way we were treated, I think I am entitled to a 'fuck you' to the ALP. Who were they to deny me the right to be Croatian.

 

[spawn]

Spawn, it is very simple and I will explain it again just for you

If you want to drop a bomb on another country that is threatening you, the idea is that you drop that bomb on the source of the threat. Unless the Japanese government were constructing atomic bombs in the houses of Japanese civillians, then they had no reason drop bombs on said civillians and thus what they did was a war crime.

In any case, the bombing of Japan was not isolated to just the two A-bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that was merely the grand finale (so to speak) of a totally unjustified, unncessary bombing campaign that was aimed wrongfully at innocent people. Even the former US defence minister during WWII acknowledges this.

Oh well, I disagree, if you buy me an apple juice ill forget your insubordination ever happened

 

[spawn]

Steve, EVERY country has its own agenda.

 

[phlogiston]

Xena, I don't really swear but if somebody is going to tell me that I have no right to be who I am, to deny me the freedom to call myself of Croatian background, that's not about policies in a Democratic policies in a peaceful country that makes Australia special.

That was denying a child their basic freedom. That was threatening and tormenting a young child. Australia is about deciding how children will go through schooling and what the best way it is to provide childcare and NOT tormenting children. So for the way we were treated, I think I am entitled to a 'fuck you' to the ALP. Who were they to deny me the right to be Croatian.

Soooo, kinda like every Australian government ever and the Stolen Generation of Indigenous Australians?

 

[Goreripper]

Steve, are you aware that some of your comments regarding ethnicity might do you and your business some harm? Are you aware that every single regular poster on this board is a big fan of the band you manage, and here you are, calling them tools? I know if I was in a band managed by you, and I found my manager making disparaging remarks about Vietnamese and Indonesia and calling my fans tools, I'd be extremely disappointed if not downright pissed off. You are welcome to your thoughts and opinions as anyone is, but as someone with a responsibility for the well-being of a musical artist in an extremely tough industry, I'd be a little more careful where I say such things and how I say them. Are you aware that one of the guys who posts here in married to an Indonesian woman who had to wait nine months to come here, even though she was married to a citizen? And this happened under Howard. What do you think his reaction is going to be, seeing your comments about Asians? The wife of the ex-bass player of the band you manage has just been kicked out of the country by Howard, and she's from Scandinavia. And your earlier comments about not touring bands under Labor? What a ridiculous excuse. Keating was PM between 1991 and 1996, and that didn't stop Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Kreator, Bolt Thrower, Sepultura, Fear Factory, Killdozer, Body Count, Carcass, Deicide, Morbid Angel, Pungent Stench, Cannibal Corpse, Alice in Chains, Suicidal Tendencies, The Cult or the hundreds of other bands that came out here during those years from touring, and I hardly think it's going to stop people bringing out bands if Labor gets in. Are you suggesting that you couldn't tour a band while Keating was PM? I hope you're not, because Howard's been in for eight years now, and you didn't start touring bands here until 2001 or something. If the Liberal government made it easier to tour international acts, why did it take you so long to start doing it?

I can't believe that a guy who manages a band who just wrote a song about the event that caused the birth of the Australian Labor movement is spouting off such near-sighted conservative drivel. That's your opinion of course, and I'm sure you keep your personal politics out of your business dealings, but you should really think about what you say and how you say it before you air them on a forum like this.

 

[Shannow]

PS. The Americans AND their allies had a duty in Iraq because they were the idiots that put Saddam in power and left him with power for so long.

Never so, it was always the WMD, and the imminent threat to the U.S. (and by association US.)

The removing an evil dictator came later.

 

[Goreripper]

Whitlam permitted the Communist Yugolsav secret police to operate in Australia to help eliminate Australia from these terrorists Menzies recognised. They said these so call terrorists (Croatians) did crimes like the Hilton bombing etc. and were locked up.

Well, several years later it was found that these bombings were set up by the Yugoslav secret police to give Croatians a bad name and to get the Croatian nationality and language abolished. No recognition would eventually lead to no existence of one of the worlds oldest nationalities.

Dude, who is this "they" you speak of here? The Yugoslavs? The Hilton bombing happened in 1977 when Fraser was PM. Whitlam was long gone by then. And as I recall, it was a trio of Australian-born members of the Ananda Marga sect who were convicted and jailed for it, not Croatians. If your family were villified during the 70s, I feel sorry for what you must have gone through, but none of this really has anything to do with this election.

 

[Shannow]

I've been wondering why Labor (I spelled it right here) haven't gone on an advertising campaign of their own.

WRT to their spending, it's still 70 or 80% of Howard's promises. Easy advertisement material here. "We don't need to subimt our estimates for costing, as we are promising 20% less spending than the Government. If they remain in surplus, then we will shit it in. If we're 25% out, then we break even."

WRT to the interest rates "When Howard was treasurer, the deficit (1983) was $26 Billion ($47B corrected), unemployment was 11%, Interest Rates were 15%, and inflation was 11%.......And he questions OUR credentials !!".

WRT higher taxes, since 1996 there have been 143 new or increased taxes, 36 since the last election.

When John Howard was treasurer, he threatened to resign over Fraser's outrageous spend in election promises.......Show tally of promises made since the budget was released.

They can't lose !!

 

[Goreripper]

I'm getting Latham on the phone right now to read this post, Shannow.

 

[Goreripper]

I'd also add that the 17.5% interest rate they keep showing happened under Hawke was during a world-wide recession, that was exacerbated by the fiscal mismanagement of the Fraser Liberal government.

 

[Goreripper]

Never so, it was always the WMD, and the imminent threat to the U.S. (and by association US.)

The removing an evil dictator came later.

Even if that was the original reason, we had no right to do it. Saddam isn't the only evil dictator in the world. No one cared that Pol Pot or Idi Amin were evil. No one is talking about sending in troops to remove Mugabe. Even when Gadaffi was Public Enemy Number One, the US didn't send in an army to get rid of him. You can't just go into a country and remove the government because they're "evil".

 

[Mark]