The "Epic" Metal Debate Thread

[Einherjar86]

A term that I often use to define metal that I enjoy, and what I usually consider as a selling point, is the word "epic." I almost always check a band out if someone describes them using this word. Bands that are marketed under this term often share similar sounds (symphonic elements, large vocal production, etc.). However, among metalheads, I've heard this term used to describe a vast array of bands, falling into a range of genres from minimalistic black metal to old school death, to symphonic power. So I started this thread to ask the majority here: what does "epic metal" mean to you? What tenets does an epic metal song require? What compositional techniques, what musical styles? And lastly, list some songs you feel possess the quality of "epic." Feel free to post links to youtube if you want.

As for me, the following songs fufill the definition of "epic" in my mind (in more than one way, sometimes). The list would normally be very long, but I'm limiting it to only a few for right now:

As Rome Burns (Primordial)
Colossus (Borknagar)
With Strength I Burn (Emperor)
Five Hundred and One (Turisas)
Jumalten Kaupunki (Moonsorrow)
And the North Star Cried (Kiuas)
The Cross (Samael)
Vanaheim (Therion)

These are just a few for me. I'm sure I'll be in agreement with others here, and probably some disagreement.

 

[The Ozzman]

Queensryche - En Force

 

[Einherjar86]

^Good call.

 

[Gold]

for me an epic song is a progressive song with good structure. The epic parts of the song have to catch me off guard and deliver. usually i like if theres a good cooldown/transition into the next part.

songs i can think of right now would be

Dream theater - finally free (or the entire metropolis2 album since its a cumination of alot of parts)
Opeth - Ghost of perdition/baying of the hounds/masters apperentices
Between the buried and me - white walls(or the entire colors album since like metropolis 2 its a cumlination of an entire album)
Pink floyd - echoes

 

[Manic Ferocity]

These immediately come to mind:

Hail - 'War Must Go On' (probably the most epic black metal song ever recorded)
Amorphis - 'Warrior's Trial'
Emperor - 'Majesty of the Nightsky'
Sacramentum - 'Blood Shall Be Spilled' (especially that ending section)

 

[brownmetalman420]

i usually but not always associate "epic" with doom/sludge metal. somewhat slow and crushing with heavy gruff vocals.this makes the music sound very powerful. also metal with lots of atmosphere makes me think epic at times as well

 

[waif]

If I shut my eyes and get a sense of vertigo because I'm fairly certain I'm soaring over barren wastelands and misty mountains, it's epic.

I don't really know how to define epic, I don't know if it's a musical property or a general atmosphere thing, but the following are epic:

Emperor - In The Nightside Eclipse (every fucking second of the entire album is the definition of epic)
Vital Remains - Dechristianize - all the sweeping parts on the album are epic as fuck
Bathory - One Rode To Asa Bay (most epic shit ever), Home Of Once Brave, Nordland, etc
Avantasia - Reach out For The Light, Sign Of The Cross, The Tower
Human Fortress - The Dragon's Layer, Divine Astronomy, Damned To Bedlam, Lord Of Earth And Heaven's Heir
and so on.

 

[Qoppa]

Length really helps. Long songs with interesting progressions and development are usually epic.

Some that come to mind right now...

Symphony X - The Odyssey
Blind Guardian - And Then There Was Silence
Blind Guardian - Mirror Mirror
Ensiferum - LAI LAI HEI
Moonsorrow - Raunioilla (a lot of their songs I'd call epic)
Most of Turisas's songs

 

[The Ozzman]

FIGHT WELL
IN HELL
OPEN THE GATES!

 

[Omni]

I tend to use the word epic only for things that actually meet the definition, musical or otherwise. I don't use it as a placeholder for "cool" and similar terms because I think that's stupid.

 

[waif]

well, yes. I wouldn't say "dude that movie was epic" after watching Harold And Kumar, I'd say "that shit was hilarious"

One thing that tends to be epic is marching power chord progressions with keyboards or choirs over them. Choirs and synth in general are good tools for epic shit. Tremelo picked melodies are another staple of epic shit.

 

[Qoppa]

If I shut my eyes and get a sense of vertigo because I'm fairly certain I'm soaring over barren wastelands and misty mountains, it's epic.

I like this definition.

Also, One Rode to Asa Bay is fucking epic.

 

[Einherjar86]

One Road to Asa Bay is another good fucking call.

For me, vocal melody usually has a lot to do with the "epic-ness" of a song. For instance, in With Strength I Burn when Ihsahn comes in with the clean vocal part, I just get fucking chills all over. Same with the vocal melody from Borknagar's Colossus.

As a lot of people probably know now, symphonic elements usually lend to a song's epic quality for me. Therefore, bands like Turisas and Therion really give a grand, epic sense when I listen to them.

However, there are other elements as well. For instance, Samael's The Cross always seems epic to me. The order of the verses, and the way that Vorph's vocals gradually get more and more intense is just so powerful. Likewise, with Primordial's As Rome Burns, the build-up section midway through just completes the song, and really adds to the epic quality. So, I think that patience in a song is a huge element. Songs that aren't necessarily always epic, but possess contrasting parts that slowly build/work their way to a grand finish, or even chorus (Turisas's Five Hundred and One is a killer song, but never really achieves its epic status for me until the choir part at the end); as said by Qoppa, this usually means that songs are longer, which also adds to its epic quality. However, length doesn't always do it for me, as was said also. The song must be diverse and demonstrate several movements and dynamics.

 

[naboo]

Summoning

There's usually some common complexion with all 'epic' metal. It's just really hard to articulate it. A big part of it is having the song weave itself like a narrative as opposed to a linear song. It sort takes you on a journey or tells you a story.

 

[Vilden]

If I shut my eyes and get a sense of vertigo because I'm fairly certain I'm soaring over barren wastelands and misty mountains, it's epic.

Yeah, pretty much this. When the song is telling a great story of some sorts or invoke a feeling of other times of greater proportions (why does this sound really gay ) like the one above, for example:

Scald - Sepulchral Bonfire!
Bathory - One Rode to Asa Bay
Iron Maiden - Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Solstice - Cimmerian Codex
Doomsword - Onward Into Battle
Manilla Road - The Ninth Gate
Manowar - The Crown and the Ring
Summoning - Land of the Dead
Deströyer 666 - Trialed By Fire
Symphony X - The Accolade

etc, etc.

 

[Omni]

Oh, and here's some albums:

Primordial - To the Nameless Dead
Bathory - Blood Fire Death
Summoning - Let Mortal Heroes Sing Your Fame
Agalloch - The Mantle
Negură Bunget - OM
Manilla Road - Crystal Logic
In the Woods... - Omnio

 

[mutantllama]

Manowar-Battle Hymns


When I here the word epic, that's the first thing that comes to my mind.

 

[Caecius]

I have a very general definition of "epic". I think any song over 6 minutes is epic or at least trying to be. Many try, few succeed.

 

[Gold]

nobodys mentioned Explosions in the sky, tool, vader or meshuggah

 

[waif]

For me, vocal melody usually has a lot to do with the "epic-ness" of a song. For instance, in With Strength I Burn when Ihsahn comes in with the clean vocal part, I just get fucking chills all over. Same with the vocal melody from Borknagar's Colossus.

As a lot of people probably know now, symphonic elements usually lend to a song's epic quality for me. Therefore, bands like Turisas and Therion really give a grand, epic sense when I listen to them.

However, there are other elements as well. For instance, Samael's The Cross always seems epic to me. The order of the verses, and the way that Vorph's vocals gradually get more and more intense is just so powerful. Likewise, with Primordial's As Rome Burns, the build-up section midway through just completes the song, and really adds to the epic quality. So, I think that patience in a song is a huge element. Songs that aren't necessarily always epic, but possess contrasting parts that slowly build/work their way to a grand finish, or even chorus (Turisas's Five Hundred and One is a killer song, but never really achieves its epic status for me until the choir part at the end); as said by Qoppa, this usually means that songs are longer, which also adds to its epic quality. However, length doesn't always do it for me, as was said also. The song must be diverse and demonstrate several movements and dynamics.

Yeah.
But then there's relatively short stuff that's mad epic. Amon Amarth are the kings of this.
We should compile a list of various elements that can make shit epic.

Soaring vocal melodies
Tremelo-picked melodies
choirs
keyboards/symphonic stuff
epic synth
"marching" progressions (like in One Rode To Asa Bay)
length, but not necessarily
complexity, but not necessarily (some complex songs aren't epic, some incredibly simple songs are epic, such as Bathory - Home Of Once Brave)

I have a very general definition of "epic". I think any song over 6 minutes is epic or at least trying to be. Many try, few succeed.

No.
Some songs are just over six minutes, you see.