THE OFFICIAL DREAM THEATER DISCUSSION THREAD

[OfSinsAndShred]

And yes I can compare their mastery to that of the Classics because there is little doubt in my mind that Mozart would not roll over but rather buy a front row ticket and stand there with his jaw hanging and head bouncin .......... Mozart ---->

more closely resembling the composition approach and mastery of scales and modes of the ....... classical composers.

Disclaimer: I like Dream Theater. I'd even say that I like them a lot.

Um... wow. Did you just say Mozart would have his jaw hanging at DT's music? At the risk of getting banned: The fact that you can act like you know your stuff while being this appallingly ignorant makes me pissed that you're breathing my air.

Ken was right - there are a lot of great composers in metal, but to compare them to the classics isn't even funny.

 

[Horus]

This is what the composers would be saying:

Mozart: "Gtfo n00b. This isn't composed."
Beethoven: "What the fuck is 15/16?"
Bach: "Too long. Give it to the church."
Debussy: "Lolwut Dance of Eternity?"

Chopin: "Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you."
Keith Emerson: "No you can't."
Chopin: "Yes I can."
Emerson: "No you can't."
Chopin: "This song sucks."

 

[Ascension]

No. Dag Swanö is.

Or Dan Rather.:zombie:

 

[Ascension]

Seriously... there's nothing I can add to this.

You're from the North...naturally you wouldn't understand. :Smug:

 

[Ascension]

hahaha seriously "son", if you're still in europe, I'll gladly wait for you in Athens, Greece if you're in need of some swimming in the sea and a nice tan. I'll make sure you have a great time.

Actually, l'll be on the island of Agistri in late August. The owner of the company l'm consulting with has set it up. l'm looking forward to it.

 

[Ascension]

You see, my point wasn't that Fates Warning is better than Dream Theater (though some of their albums are, in my opinion), but that they were first. Dream Theater members even admit it, and in several interviews list off who they feel were the real innovators of prog metal. Fates is one of the bands listed. Essentially I'm just saying that DT isn't groundbreaking. They had some great albums (I&W is one of them) but they are nowhere near the people you are comparing them to. Neither are Fates Warning.

Damn...we agree on something. l think it's in the Bible. In Revelations, the fifth angel opens the vial and two individuals of normally opposing viewpoints agree. It is truly the end of the world as we know it.

IMO, Rush, FW, and Queensryche laid the groundwork for a band like DT to evolve the music and bring the term "progressive metal" to the forefront. And, to say any current band or music (metal, pop,rock, etc.) is equal to classical composers/compositions just doesn't work. Comparisons can be made sure...but they can't be put on equal terms. 100 years from now l feel certain what we listen to today will be long gone & forgotten...classical compositions will still be here and enjoyed.

 

[cro4eva]

Ken was right - there are a lot of great composers in metal, but to compare them to the classics isn't even funny.

What makes these composers greater? Why can't they be compared? Is it not all opinion?

 

[Horus]

The reason that no musicians have been validly compared to composers like Mozart is because none of them are remotely capable of arranging things in a manner that comes together as solid and well written as the symphonies of the Classical eras. It's not just a matter of how good of a musician they are. Face it dude, Dream Theater are not good at songwriting anymore.

And like I said earlier, "WEEDLYWEEDLYWEEDLY" for 10 minutes straight a composition does not make.

 

[CttN]

Harris is so dreamy

 

[Anonymous]

It's worth the jail time Harris.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Harris is only 17. he won't go to jail

 

[Kenneth R.]

Damn...we agree on something. l think it's in the Bible. In Revelations, the fifth angel opens the vial and two individuals of normally opposing viewpoints agree. It is truly the end of the world as we know it.

IMO, Rush, FW, and Queensryche laid the groundwork for a band like DT to evolve the music and bring the term "progressive metal" to the forefront. And, to say any current band or music (metal, pop,rock, etc.) is equal to classical composers/compositions just doesn't work. Comparisons can be made sure...but they can't be put on equal terms. 100 years from now l feel certain what we listen to today will be long gone & forgotten...classical compositions will still be here and enjoyed.

I agree. So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to pass off my harsh opinions as trolling.

 

[cro4eva]

The reason that no musicians have been validly compared to composers like Mozart is because none of them are remotely capable of arranging things in a manner that comes together as solid and well written as the symphonies of the Classical eras. It's not just a matter of how good of a musician they are. Face it dude, Dream Theater are not good at songwriting anymore.

And like I said earlier, "WEEDLYWEEDLYWEEDLY" for 10 minutes straight a composition does not make.

I was not defending Dream Theater. And "WEEDLYWEEDLYWEEDLY" does make a composition, hell some of the classical stuff is quite similar, but since it is put on guitar it is called wankery, done on the Violin and it is beautiful.

Who is to say it is a bad, or good composition? I could string together the sounds of traffic, banging on trash cans and making a song out of it, some people may love it and praise it as being the best thing they have ever heard. It all comes down to opinion. So I can't see why people would say you can't say Dream Theater and Symphony X can't be compared to the classical composers.

I also don't believe the reason of DT not being the innovators Prog Metal therefore they cannot be compared to Bach and such. Why does one have to be an innovator to be great, why can't a band take others ideas and great them in to something better?

Anyways, just a thought I had. It is hard to really come to a conclusion in these discussions. And just so you know, I do think Bach, Mozart and CO were amazing

 

[dparker88]

You're saying musical taste is subjective? DEAR GOD!

 

[cro4eva]

You're saying musical taste is subjective? DEAR GOD!

Yes, I know stating the obvious. I wanted to know why people would say these bands can't be ranked as highly as the classical composers. Since music is subjective.

 

[Ascension]

I agree. So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to pass off my harsh opinions as trolling.

You approached the classical/contemporary debate with a modicum of reasoning...the rest...naaa just trolling. Hey...everything can't possibly go the way you hoped it would. But, nice try.

I was not defending Dream Theater. And "WEEDLYWEEDLYWEEDLY" does make a composition, hell some of the classical stuff is quite similar, but since it is put on guitar it is called wankery, done on the Violin and it is beautiful.

Truth. Mozart got slammed with the "too many notes" BS in his day. To him it was just the right amount of notes even though most others didn't understand. The rest is history.

 

[dparker88]

Yes, I know stating the obvious. I wanted to know why people would say these bands can't be ranked as highly as the classical composers. Since music is subjective.

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all, I was being sarcastic, I do that.

Infact, I agree with you. Props for contributing constructively!

 

[CttN]

"The notes he doesn't play are just as important as the ones he does!" or something to that effect. Made me lol.

 

[dparker88]

"The notes he doesn't play are just as important as the ones he does!" or something to that effect. Made me lol.

Lisa S: You have to listen to the notes she's not playing.
Random: Pfft... I can do that at home.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

What makes these composers greater? Why can't they be compared? Is it not all opinion?

I really don't think it is in this case. DT writes some awesome rock songs, and crazy instrumental packages. But to compare their composition to Bach, or their virtuosity to Liszt.... no. No metal band comes close to the classics.