The Official Good Television Thread

[Vegard Pompey]

Season 4 is the best.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

i just watched the tyrion trial ep, that shit was gold.

one of my favorite episodes

 

[Manic Ferocity]

i just watched the tyrion trial ep, that shit was gold.

Same. One of the best episodes I've seen so far.

 

[-CC-]

Interesting takes on last night's episode. I've been so disappointed with this entire season - ESPECIALLY episode 3. But this is the first episode that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Spoiler

Personally I'm a fan of the Mad Queen angle they are doing with Dany and would argue that this arc was always meant to be looking back at past seasons. As for the episode, I think they really nailed the atmosphere of dread and destruction. Especially the scenes where Jon is watching in horror. I think the biggest disappointment of this episode was the complete destruction of the Iron Fleet and ballistas without any repercussion, BUT to be fair - I found it dumber that they were able to kill the other dragon with laser-like precision - as opposed to everyone missing which is the more likely scenario with a moving target like that. Now if only Bran turns into the Night King at the very end I'll consider this season somewhat redeemed.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

There are so many problems with the end of GoT that there is next to nothing to save it in the final episode. The only hope we have is that Martin stops procrastinating and actually finishes the series with dignity.

Spoiler

The story-writing is so illogical and betrays so many of the characters' arcs. Let's start with the character assassination of Dany. Now let me acknowledge that she is probably going to go Mad Queen in the book as well and there are hints from the very first book that this may happen, including bursts of anger and paranoia (to be fair, it's justified). However, since the books are POV, I am expecting for Martin to clearly show her descent into madness.

However, in the show, they have not gone nearly done enough to imply she would murder innocents just because. Sure she has burned enemies before, but it was always a military opponent or other sort of threat. It was always based on principle. She has specifically gone out of her way over and over again to protect the innocent, including just three episodes ago when she put her army and two remaining dragons on the front line against the army of the undead. Her decision to murder the civilians AFTER winning the war is completely irrational and out of place with the character as developed on the show, and the fact that Rhaegal, Jorah, and Missandei died and Jon is a Targeryan is not enough to justify this shift. If they are trying to say she went crazy, they needed to more to establish that. If they are trying to say she just gave into evil impulses, then we needed that to be better established by her doing more morally questionable acts (the sorry attempt with the Tarlys fell flat because her actions were in line with the actions of other Westerosi leaders in the show).

Next we have Tyrion. Why in the fuck is he suddenly such an idiot? He honestly deserves to be executed for his lack of good council. Based on how easy Dany took Kings Landing in 8.5, she should have gone straight there when she landed in Westeros and taken it right away when she still had three dragons and the Lanisters hadn't developed the big crossbows. Since she hadn't "lost it" yet, she presumably wouldn't have killed innocents. Tyrion already has massive strikes against him for stupidly having faith in Cersei in 7.5 (hey let's risk the life of our biggest ally to try and catch a member of the army of the dead to try and convince Cersei to help us, even though that notion is OBVIOUSLY out of her character!), 7.7 (hey, let's totally trust Cersei to send her army up north to help us. That totally seems like something she would do!) and 8.4 (hey, you know I bet if I have a heart to heart with Cersei she will surrender. She's a pretty level headed person!). In all cases, it was obvious to show watchers that Cersei would do what Tryion thinks she will do. So why in the fuck can't Tryion see it? I need an explanation on how he became so fucking dumb. If it was Jaime, I could see him having a blind spot for him, but I don't understand this inexplicable blind spot for Cersei.

Jaime: I actually like the idea of Jaime doing a double-reverse from redeemed to unredeemed, but like Dany, the shift happened way too fast. We needed to see him gradually shift back to his old ways or thoughts. There needed to be some internal conflict. As it is, he just flipped in a heart beat after YEARS of gradually being redeemed. It's just bad writing.

Big crossbows: OK, are these things unstoppable dragon killing machines or not? You can't tell us that in 8.4 they're able snipe an in motion Rhaegal out of the sky with all three shots hitting from over a mile away to none of them hitting Drogon in 8.5. This basically illustrates the whole flaw with the final season. Things happen because the script writers need them to happen. Who cares about logic, physics, reason, character motivation? Just get us to where we need to be.

 

[rms]

Hilarious that this season is too illogical now

These time execution grips are nonsense anyways. People.want to see what has happened so far and hbo is clearly done with the.show. The best that was gonna happen

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I agree with pretty much everything Crimmy said above

Spoiler

First three episodes were okay and at parts very good, last two episodes(especially Ep 5) sucked ass. I think it was ridiculous that Dany and her two dragons were ambushed IN AIR by a fleet of ships ON THE WATER. Euron/the iron fleet went 3/3 on Rhaegl when they didnt even have a clean shot but then they missed dozens of shots when Drogon and Dany were coming for them head on? They rolled up to Kings Landing and stood their queen and one remaining dragon in front of dozens of ballistas and soldiers and nothing happened to them? I really enjoyed most of Episode 3, but we've been waiting for a Jon Snow vs Night King showdown since basically the beginning only to have Arya come in there like a ninja and steal his glory. Cerseis death was pretty anticlimactic considering she was the biggest "villain" of the show. I was really hoping she would've had at least one more trick up her sleeve. Was thinking maybe she would have somehow tactically put those wildfire caches to use against Dany and her dragon. I also thought it was pretty lame how Arya went from "im going to kill Cersei Lannister" to "okay fine nevermind i'll leave" in just a few seconds. The Hound and Mountain should have happened way earlier and it was pretty fucking stupid here tbh. Scene was pretty bogus. The mountain even tried the watermelon move again ffs. And i dont know how a sword through the chest and head isnt going to kill him but a fall/fire is gonna do it. Just did not belong in this episode imo. And lol again at dozens and dozens of ballistas that missed Drogon when he came head on for Kings Landing. I really wanted to see this Mad Queen arc but they didnt handle it well and should have approached this a little earlier and fleshed it out more. I hate to say it but this whole seasons feels VERY rushed and they're just trying to tie things up before the finish line .... which is just not how they should have handled a show of this magnitude. I blame it all on Benioff and Weiss, it was their idea to have six episodes instead of ten and if i am not mistaken they were the ones who wanted to skip last year too. Made us wait a year for this? Sad ... and a damn shame tbh ... the show deserved much better from them. I hope we at least get to see Jon taking out Dany but i doubt that since it'll probably once again go to Arya(Death rides a pale horse, the prophecy of her shutting brown, blue and GREEN eyes etc). I'm super fucking disappointed.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

*SPOILER*


Anyone else notice the shadow of the dragon going over kings landing when Dany snaps? I think that's from one of Brans visions from way earlier. The part with the her losing it right when the bells started ringing was pulled off so perfectly, gotta give em that.

Spoiler

@:2:22

 

[Satanstoenail]

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

There are so many problems with the end of GoT that there is next to nothing to save it in the final episode. The only hope we have is that Martin stops procrastinating and actually finishes the series with dignity.

Spoiler

The story-writing is so illogical and betrays so many of the characters' arcs. Let's start with the character assassination of Dany. Now let me acknowledge that she is probably going to go Mad Queen in the book as well and there are hints from the very first book that this may happen, including bursts of anger and paranoia (to be fair, it's justified). However, since the books are POV, I am expecting for Martin to clearly show her descent into madness.

However, in the show, they have not gone nearly done enough to imply she would murder innocents just because. Sure she has burned enemies before, but it was always a military opponent or other sort of threat. It was always based on principle. She has specifically gone out of her way over and over again to protect the innocent, including just three episodes ago when she put her army and two remaining dragons on the front line against the army of the undead. Her decision to murder the civilians AFTER winning the war is completely irrational and out of place with the character as developed on the show, and the fact that Rhaegal, Jorah, and Missandei died and Jon is a Targeryan is not enough to justify this shift. If they are trying to say she went crazy, they needed to more to establish that. If they are trying to say she just gave into evil impulses, then we needed that to be better established by her doing more morally questionable acts (the sorry attempt with the Tarlys fell flat because her actions were in line with the actions of other Westerosi leaders in the show).

Next we have Tyrion. Why in the fuck is he suddenly such an idiot? He honestly deserves to be executed for his lack of good council. Based on how easy Dany took Kings Landing in 8.5, she should have gone straight there when she landed in Westeros and taken it right away when she still had three dragons and the Lanisters hadn't developed the big crossbows. Since she hadn't "lost it" yet, she presumably wouldn't have killed innocents. Tyrion already has massive strikes against him for stupidly having faith in Cersei in 7.5 (hey let's risk the life of our biggest ally to try and catch a member of the army of the dead to try and convince Cersei to help us, even though that notion is OBVIOUSLY out of her character!), 7.7 (hey, let's totally trust Cersei to send her army up north to help us. That totally seems like something she would do!) and 8.4 (hey, you know I bet if I have a heart to heart with Cersei she will surrender. She's a pretty level headed person!). In all cases, it was obvious to show watchers that Cersei would do what Tryion thinks she will do. So why in the fuck can't Tryion see it? I need an explanation on how he became so fucking dumb. If it was Jaime, I could see him having a blind spot for him, but I don't understand this inexplicable blind spot for Cersei.

Jaime: I actually like the idea of Jaime doing a double-reverse from redeemed to unredeemed, but like Dany, the shift happened way too fast. We needed to see him gradually shift back to his old ways or thoughts. There needed to be some internal conflict. As it is, he just flipped in a heart beat after YEARS of gradually being redeemed. It's just bad writing.

Big crossbows: OK, are these things unstoppable dragon killing machines or not? You can't tell us that in 8.4 they're able snipe an in motion Rhaegal out of the sky with all three shots hitting from over a mile away to none of them hitting Drogon in 8.5. This basically illustrates the whole flaw with the final season. Things happen because the script writers need them to happen. Who cares about logic, physics, reason, character motivation? Just get us to where we need to be.

Spoiler

I agree wholeheartedly. D&D are basically railroading the characters to fulfill major plot points that were revealed to them by GRRM; to be fair, even George himself hasn't yet figured out the details of how to get there, or else we'd have the last two books out by now.

They really shit the bed by letting Dany so easily take King's Landing with little to no civilian casualties. It would've been believable that she would resort to torching the city to the ground if that was the only way she could take it, but this episode presented no such dilemma, instead having her go berserk, apparently because of the bells (which were never previously established to mean surrender, btw). It reminded my of this scene in Mars Attacks, just with doves replaced with bells:

 

[Einherjar86]

Spoiler

They really shit the bed by letting Dany so easily take King's Landing with little to no civilian casualties. It would've been believable that she would resort to torching the city to the ground if that was the only way she could take it, but this episode presented no such dilemma

Spoiler

The impression you got was that there were no casualties? I feel like I saw something very different. She wasn't presented with a dilemma because she went berserk--but there were still enormous civilian casualties. She just didn't care because now she's crazy, apparently.

Also, I feel like she did torch the city to the ground. That was what I gathered from those aerial shots of Drogon criss-crossing the city and laying waste to it. She basically just flew back and forth spewing fire.

She definitely took the city easily, but not at minimal civilian cost. A lot of innocent people died.

 

[Krow]

Spoiler

The impression you got was that there were no casualties? I feel like I saw something very different. She wasn't presented with a dilemma because she went berserk--but there were still enormous civilian casualties. She just didn't care because now she's crazy, apparently.

Also, I feel like she did torch the city to the ground. That was what I gathered from those aerial shots of Drogon criss-crossing the city and laying waste to it. She basically just flew back and forth spewing fire.

She definitely took the city easily, but not at minimal civilian cost. A lot of innocent people died.

Spoiler

i assume he meant the city was already taken and surrendered before she decided to murder everyone else, lots of civilians still alive at that point.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

*SPOILER*


Anyone else notice the shadow of the dragon going over kings landing when Dany snaps? I think that's from one of Brans visions from way earlier. The part with the her losing it right when the bells started ringing was pulled off so perfectly, gotta give em that.

Spoiler

@:2:22

Visually, this episode was phenomenal. If they had actually bothered with character development over the past two seasons and spent 20 minutes thinking about basic military strategy, this episode could have been a masterpiece. The problem is it doesn’t matter how beautiful something looks if no one is buying what you’re selling.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

Spoiler

I honestly loved the episode as pure spectacle and was initially surprised to discover how immensely negative the fan reaction was. I definitely thought it was a better episode than 3. Maybe my expectations were low enough at this point that I wasn't bothered by all the writing snafus.

Dany's "bells" moment is a total cipher and had the writing maintained a higher standard throughout the season it might've been fascinating to speculate on what goes on in her head at that moment to make her attack innocents. Dany has shown cruelty before, but never irrational cruelty, so there ought to be some rationale to her actions. Maybe she sees her relatively bloodless victory within reach and decides that this is not the victory she wants, and decides to inaugurate her reign in fire and blood so that the people of Westeros will know to fear her like they feared previous Targaryen rulers? As it stands though, I have zero faith that the final episode will elaborate on her decision enough to make it work.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Spoiler

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

only 2 more days until the final episode

 

[Dak]

Tacoma FD. Steve Lemme might be the only male who looks better with a mustache vs without.

 

[CiG]

I guess you don't know who Tom Selleck or Sam Elliott is.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Daniel Day-Lewis looks like a chump without his stache.

 

[CiG]

He looked a bit like Chuck Schuldiner in The Last of the Mohicans.