The Official Good Television Thread

[Vegard Pompey]

this is really popping off huh. even my mum asked me about it today so it must be a big deal. apparently the subtitles are bad though?

Yeah I've heard a bunch of people talking about it at school as well. I think besides just being a great show it also has a very marketable premise & aesthetic and Netflix seems to be pushing it pretty hard also. Haven't heard anything about the subtitles being bad, nor could I tell if they were. People do complain about the English dialogue being terrible (what little of it there is) but I find it hilarious and wouldn't want it any other way.

 

[Einherjar86]

Has anybody watched Altered Carbon? Looks interesting.

First season was solid, entertaining. Second was meh.

Finished Midnight Mass over the weekend. Another well-written, devastating opus from Mike Flanagan. A lot of the sensationalist media pieces are misleading; it's not a scary show at all. It's an unsettling slow burn about the gradual, socially deteriorating effects of religious groupthink juxtaposed with the physical deteriorations of the body and coming to terms with the fact that we're clunky biological machines who will one day break down.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Yeah I've heard a bunch of people talking about it at school as well. I think besides just being a great show it also has a very marketable premise & aesthetic and Netflix seems to be pushing it pretty hard also. Haven't heard anything about the subtitles being bad, nor could I tell if they were. People do complain about the English dialogue being terrible (what little of it there is) but I find it hilarious and wouldn't want it any other way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58787264

it’s not gonna put me off watching it or anything, i’m just curious really. i bet this happens loads with foreign language films and shows.

 

[rms]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58787264

it’s not gonna put me off watching it or anything, i’m just curious really. i bet this happens loads with foreign language films and shows.

that complaint is pretty small but surprised to see people think there's something left in the royale niche. But if anyone can find something, the lovely Koreans could be the ones

 

[Slayed Necros]

Watched Squid Game, somehow made it through the entire fucking thing (drugs), and I'm baffled by the hype. I had no attachment at all to any of the characters except for the guy with the tattoo on his face, and some of the acting and dialogue was truly abysmal, especially from the English speaking actors. I don't expect much from Netflix produced shows anymore, but fuck this shit.

 

[CiG]

You know It's bad when Slayed chimes in.

 

[Slayed Necros]

Had to set the record straight!

 

[challenge_everything]

Watched Squid Game, somehow made it through the entire fucking thing (drugs), and I'm baffled by the hype. I had no attachment at all to any of the characters except for the guy with the tattoo on his face, and some of the acting and dialogue was truly abysmal, especially from the English speaking actors. I don't expect much from Netflix produced shows anymore, but fuck this shit.

I don't recall Battle Royale having much in the way of characterisation either; it's at least on par for the genre. And I'm surprised to hear you say the acting was absymal - I didn't get any of that other than it being typically stiff and mannered like a lot of north asian stuff.

I had other issues with the show - it tended toward trite moralisms as it went on and the last episode was plain bad. The plotline with the cop was also a letdown. But it entertained me for a while.

 

[Einherjar86]

Sorry guys, coming in hot here with a shitty take...

I'd never seen the Sopranos in its entirety, so started watching from the beginning. I don't get it. I'm halfway through the second season and bored as fuck.

I've never been a huge fan of mob movies, but I think the more serious offender for me in this show is the insistence on psychological portraiture. I realize that's what sold a lot of people on this show, but I can't bring myself to care about what makes a white collar crime ring leader tick. I'm suspicious in general of narratives woven around the mental distresses of egomaniacal, middle class white dudes; and this one in particular feels banal. Perhaps banality is the point...? If so, it makes for disengaged viewing on my part.

Also, the psychologist sucks at her job. Is she supposed to suck at her job?

 

[CiG]

I've never been a huge fan of mob movies

I mean... not to be a dick, but...

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, I was told by friends that it transcends the mob genre (not sure I agree). So I'm trying to push beyond that in understanding why I'm not a fan.

 

[CiG]

I think most people who say shit like "oh it transcends the genre" are just super-fans who want to add prestige. It doesn't transcend the mob genre at all. It shines brightly within the mob genre and helped to elevate its representation within the realm of television. But in no way will you love Sopranos while simultaneously finding most mob movies boring or dull or whatever, haha.

 

[rms]

Also, the psychologist sucks at her job. Is she supposed to suck at her job?

probably, she's infatuated with him and his lifestyle

show is the insistence on psychological portraiture

I don't think t's a thing of the show to see how an emotionally stunted male struggles at expressing himself for several seasons, I personally don't focus on that aspect. then again, it sounds like you view Sopranos in the same vein as I view Succession, in that I don't give a flying fuck about some rich white family issues. and I ain't going back to that Succession. so that might be easy enough to throw away a show, sure was for me

I think I've watched it 2 or 3 times in full and I really like it, but I don't think I could articulate why I go back every once and awhile. But I truly can't picture you ever enjoying that type of media, but maybe i'm wrong

 

[Einherjar86]

probably, she's infatuated with him and his lifestyle

I don't think t's a thing of the show to see how an emotionally stunted male struggles at expressing himself for several seasons, I personally don't focus on that aspect. then again, it sounds like you view Sopranos in the same vein as I view Succession, in that I don't give a flying fuck about some rich white family issues. and I ain't going back to that Succession. so that might be easy enough to throw away a show, sure was for me

I think I've watched it 2 or 3 times in full and I really like it, but I don't think I could articulate why I go back every once and awhile. But I truly can't picture you ever enjoying that type of media, but maybe i'm wrong

That's all fair enough; but the significant difference that I would venture between Succession and Sopranos is that Succession is very aware how ridiculous the woes of the Roy family are, whereas Sopranos strikes me as very enthusiastically and realistically committed to Tony Soprano's problems.

There's a major difference in tone between the two shows. Succession is satire. The Sopranos isn't.

 

[CiG]

Satire helps privileged whites watch shit like that guilt free.

 

[Vegard Pompey]

Sorry guys, coming in hot here with a shitty take...

I'd never seen the Sopranos in its entirety, so started watching from the beginning. I don't get it. I'm halfway through the second season and bored as fuck.

I've never been a huge fan of mob movies, but I think the more serious offender for me in this show is the insistence on psychological portraiture. I realize that's what sold a lot of people on this show, but I can't bring myself to care about what makes a white collar crime ring leader tick. I'm suspicious in general of narratives woven around the mental distresses of egomaniacal, middle class white dudes; and this one in particular feels banal. Perhaps banality is the point...? If so, it makes for disengaged viewing on my part.

Also, the psychologist sucks at her job. Is she supposed to suck at her job?

Not entirely sober at the moment but I will try to address this post the best i can. I will tell you I wasn't entirely sold on The Sopranos the first time I saw it. But it stuck with me, so I watched it again. Then I watched it again. And so on... My issues weren't identical to yours (I was frustrated with the episodic nature of the series, compared to the rest of the canon of TV) but it got better the more I watched it, the more I thought about it, the more I read essays about it. And I would say season 2 is the most boring season of the series and definitely the most likely but also the worst place to quit.

Regarding your specific complaints, I would say The Sopranos isn't just a character study of a white middle class mobster but more broadly concerned with whether people have the ability to truly change, using a white middle class mobster in particular as a case study. Several of the incredibly flawed characters you've encountered so far will in future seasons be given impetuses for change and they will respond to them in different ways. And regarding Dr. Melfi, upcoming seasons of the series will interrogate her on her complicity in Tony Soprano's actions. I would encourage you to stick with it a while longer, not only because the upcoming seasons are more entertaining but also because they are deeper. The final season in particular. If the first five seasons of The Sopranos are Scorsese, the last season is Dostoevsky. I hope you'll get that far and I hope you'll see what I mean.

 

[Einherjar86]

Not entirely sober at the moment but I will try to address this post the best i can. I will tell you I wasn't entirely sold on The Sopranos the first time I saw it. But it stuck with me, so I watched it again. Then I watched it again. And so on... My issues weren't identical to yours (I was frustrated with the episodic nature of the series, compared to the rest of the canon of TV) but it got better the more I watched it, the more I thought about it, the more I read essays about it. And I would say season 2 is the most boring season of the series and definitely the most likely but also the worst place to quit.

Regarding your specific complaints, I would say The Sopranos isn't just a character study of a white middle class mobster but more broadly concerned with whether people have the ability to truly change, using a white middle class mobster in particular as a case study. Several of the incredibly flawed characters you've encountered so far will in future seasons be given impetuses for change and they will respond to them in different ways. And regarding Dr. Melfi, upcoming seasons of the series will interrogate her on her complicity in Tony Soprano's actions. I would encourage you to stick with it a while longer, not only because the upcoming seasons are more entertaining but also because they are deeper. The final season in particular. If the first five seasons of The Sopranos are Scorsese, the last season is Dostoevsky. I hope you'll get that far and I hope you'll see what I mean.

Cheers, this is good to know and gives me a reason to stick it out.

Satire helps privileged whites watch shit like that guilt free.

Well, satire can have that effect. But Succession is about the sheer absurdity of the 1%. That's a far leap from the white collar middle class of The Sopranos. I doubt Succession is the reason Rupert Murdoch feels no guilt (I also doubt he watches Succession).

 

[rms]

The end of season one of succession clearly left satire and asked the show to follow the loser son as he reclaimed what was his. I don't see how it could be viewed any differently, and seems to be going for two seasons off that shit

 

[CiG]

Well, satire can have that effect. But Succession is about the sheer absurdity of the 1%. That's a far leap from the white collar middle class of The Sopranos. I doubt Succession is the reason Rupert Murdoch feels no guilt (I also doubt he watches Succession).

I've never seen Succession lol so I was speaking more generally. But at the same time Sopranos serves a similar purpose just for a completely different more masculine blue collar audience.

Also when I say "privileged whites" I don't mean millionaires and billionaires. Just middle class and up, or whatever.

 

[Einherjar86]

I've never seen Succession lol so I was speaking more generally. But at the same time Sopranos serves a similar purpose just for a completely different more masculine blue collar audience.

Also when I say "privileged whites" I don't mean millionaires and billionaires. Just middle class and up, or whatever.

Oh I got that, I was saying that there's a big leap between middle class and the 1%, and Succession is satirizing the 1%-ers.

The end of season one of succession clearly left satire and asked the show to follow the loser son as he reclaimed what was his. I don't see how it could be viewed any differently, and seems to be going for two seasons off that shit

lol I disagree wholeheartedly. The conclusion of the first season is pathetic, embarrassing, and infuriating. It generates no empathy whatsoever for the son.

Insofar as it asks viewers to follow a succession plot line... I mean yeah, it's totally vamping on Shakespearean succession tragedies. It wears that on its sleeve; it's a shameless update of King Lear. But we can follow the narrative and not get lured into empathizing with the characters, and I don't think the show asks us to. It lets viewers wallow in the simultaneous unlikability and weird endearment of every character (with the exception of Logan).

Succession is the antithesis of an ego portrait. Its shot in a disaffected manner, and its characters are some combination of broken, vicious, wooden puppets. The whole thing is a window into the absurd sociopathy of elite wealth.