The REAL problem from here on out

trentdk said:
If all the "big headliners" are gone, then start booking more of the up-and-coming prog/power bands and lower the damn ticket prices.
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Though I would never expect Glenn to make his expenses public, I suspect it's not quite that simple. The difference in Glenn's costs between Blind Guardian and an "up-and-coming prog/power band" probably isn't as dramatic as you think. Glenn still has to fly the band over, transport them around, pay for for their food, hotel rooms, etc. The cost of the venue, security, insurance, etc. doesn't change just because lesser acts have been booked. The amount of time and effort Glenn puts in doesn't decrease because lesser bands have been booked, although the amount of risk he would have to accept (by not having a true headliner) would increase.

Zod
 
Sorry trendtdk, but that would be the stupidist thing I could ever do and would lead to the death of the festival very quickly. You simply cannot do this sort of show without a headline draw unless you wanted to scale everything back to match accordingly. Is that what you would have ProgPower do so you didn't have to spend the extra $20?

I would point you to Powerfest last year as an example. Rob & Chris put together a quality show with bands that would fit your formula (Eldritch, Biomechanical, Notcurnal Rites, Morgana LeFay). They will be the first to admit that it didn't work as they had hoped from an attendance standpoint and are changing the format of the festival as a result where prog/power bands are no longer the focus of the show.

Your percentage analysis of the ticket price per band doesn't work either. Sonata's price was based on a tour and built in expenses for the venue & band. It doesn't work that way for me in either situation. I have to *PAY* for everything that the venue doesn't when bringing in a band for a festival such as venue rental fee, additional security, additional insurance, catering, visas, my own backline instead of the bands, local transport, my own stage crew, and 2-3 days of hotel rooms.

The actual band costs have stayed within reason over the years in terms of appearance/visas. However, the cost of travel & hotels has increased almost 60% in the last five years. That cost gets passed along to you as a result because I'm not in this for the "love of the scene" alone.
 
General Zod said:
The difference in Glenn's costs between Blind Guardian and an "up-and-coming prog/power band" probably isn't as dramatic as you think.
Zod
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Correct. That is especially true of the headline bands that tour around the festival as a one-off commands a far bigger price. Orphaned Land actually cost me more than two of the top four bands that played that year.
 
Harvester said:
Sorry trendtdk, but that would be the stupidist thing I could ever do and would lead to the death of the festival very quickly. You simply cannot do this sort of show without a headline draw unless you wanted to scale everything back to match accordingly. Is that what you would have ProgPower do so you didn't have to spend the extra $20?

I would point you to Powerfest last year as an example. Rob & Chris put together a quality show with bands that would fit your formula (Eldritch, Biomechanical, Notcurnal Rites, Morgana LeFay). They will be the first to admit that it didn't work as they had hoped from an attendance standpoint and are changing the format of the festival as a result where prog/power bands are no longer the focus of the show.

Your percentage analysis of the ticket price per band doesn't work either. Sonata's price was based on a tour and built in expenses for the venue & band. It doesn't work that way for me in either situation. I have to *PAY* for everything that the venue doesn't when bringing in a band for a festival such as venue rental fee, additional security, additional insurance, catering, visas, my own backline instead of the bands, local transport, my own stage crew, and 2-3 days of hotel rooms.

The actual band costs have stayed within reason over the years in terms of appearance/visas. However, the cost of travel & hotels has increased almost 60% in the last five years. That cost gets passed along to you as a result because I'm not in this for the "love of the scene" alone.
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Makes sense to me. No matter what, the show is always still worth the price. I can't believe any band would give a "Glenn discount" just because it's Progpower. Also, the increases are rather minimal each year. It's not like $10 or $20 are thrown at us at all. It's a simple, inevitable fact of everyday life that the price of EVERYTHING goes up regularly. Shit happens.
 
Magius said:
Of that calibur there are very few left without repeats: Rhapsody, Helloween, Iced Earth, and Fates Warning, whether one likes them or not, are about all I can think of.
Interesting though that those are the older established bands, and newer bands almost never get mentioned in such esteemed company. However, in the European scene those bands are being surpassed by the Edguy, Brainstorm, Sonata Arctica generation. The skyrocketing of Dragonforce's popularity is a clear example. Woosta is correct that if the US audience can't recognize that SA has risen to that level and is worthy of headlining there will be problems later.
Add to that, many people have no objectivity and can't distinguish between "a big name" and their personal obsession.
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I don't see how Rhapsody is an 'older established band'.
 
Harvester said:
Sorry trendtdk, but that would be the stupidist thing I could ever do and would lead to the death of the festival very quickly. You simply cannot do this sort of show without a headline draw unless you wanted to scale everything back to match accordingly. Is that what you would have ProgPower do so you didn't have to spend the extra $20?

I would point you to Powerfest last year as an example. Rob & Chris put together a quality show with bands that would fit your formula (Eldritch, Biomechanical, Notcurnal Rites, Morgana LeFay). They will be the first to admit that it didn't work as they had hoped from an attendance standpoint and are changing the format of the festival as a result where prog/power bands are no longer the focus of the show.
Click to expand...

I mostly lurk on this forum, but find this discussion interesting and feel like throwing in my 2 cents. I'm not quite sure what all of the concern is about really. ProgPower didn't sell out by a handful of tickets this year, but I don't think that means the festival is going down the tubes. We all have varying tastes - some years a particular lineup might not work for some of us, while others think its one of the strongest the festival has offered. The next year the reverse may be true. Every year we'll see people complaining about the lineup, and every year we'll see people who are ecstatic because they finally get to see band X. PP V wasn't one of my favorite line ups, but for a lot of people it was one of the best. That's how it goes. In fact before I went to III (my first), I remember reading more than a few complaints about that line up, but it seemed to turn out pretty well.

Personally, I hope the format of ProgPower never changes as significantly as Powerfest, as Glenn mentioned above. There are plenty of metal festivals in the U.S. that are more open to other kinds of metal. There are festivals that focus on more extreme metal, festivals that focus on thrash, etc. There's really only one that focuses on progressive and power metal, and not by coincidence, that's the only one I make sure I attend each year. I think we would be losing something very special, and unique in the U.S., if the focus of PP were to change, or if it were to become more commercial, etc. As long as I know I'm getting to see some great prog and power metal bands, I'll continue to purchase my gold badge. The oddball bands or the bands with extreme vocals usually aren't my thing, but I can live with one or two.

Prog and power aren't the most popular kinds of music out there, but so what? Every year we get to see great bands in an intimate setting. There are plenty of great bands in both genres to keep this festival going for a long time to come, and there's nothing wrong with some repeats along the way. The repeat bands this year don't exactly tour the states on a regular basis, if at all. For those who are fans of Threshold, or Vanden Plas, or Pagan's Mind, we're only seeing them live for the second time. Twice in 4 or 5 years isn't really very much at all.

I hope Glenn continues to keep up the great work, and even if I don't like every single band every year, PP is still the best festival the U.S. has to offer.
 
I think it would be better if we look at the festival in a different light. Do not think of bands as "Big Ticket, Second Tier or First Tier, just think of the festival as a chance to see bands that would not normally come to America or have a chance to tour. It seems to me that no matter who plays SOMEONE knows who they are. No one can know about every single band ever created. I think the common bond for this festival and any festival here or in Europe is the love of the Music. Of course you will stay inside and see your favorite band but if not you will roam the lobby.

Then again, as humans, no matter what bitchin' and moaning will carry on..
 
Personally (and expanding on what I said before) I just think that exploring a bit more into the prog area you can actually find many many bands that would be great for the festival, prog is as big of a genre in it's own as is Metal itself... say, Arena, Spock's Beard?... or go into tech metal like Spastic Ink (I'd pay huge dollars to see that stuff played live)... or Dali's Dilemma, Shadow Gallery, etc?... in the history of ProgPower I'd say that Zero Hour, Pain Of Salvation, Vanden Plas, Ark, Freak Kitchen, Spiral Architec and Superior are as about as prog as the festival has gone to... there are bands that appeal to many progheads like Symphony X and Adagio that even though are more of prog/power metal than prog prog they are strong enough to appeal to the prog crowd... if power metal is becoming too expensive or doesn't produce the bands at a fast enough pace... look towards prog, pleeeeenty of stuff to pick from there.
 
I love the way Glenn goes about putting together the lineup. I welcome the opportunity to experience new(to me) bands while at the same time knowing that I probably got my only chance in this country to experience one of my favorite bands in Pain of Salvation. Heck even if they did want to come over here, they probably would have to settle for a short set time and it wouldn't feel the same.


Unlike some people though I love travelling all over this goofy planet so if for whatever reason I don't choose to make Progpower as part of my yearly vacation plans, I don't bitch and moan. Heck, I still do my best to help promote Progpower to all the people I think might be interested in it.


Glenn has such a tough job but does an amazing job each and every year!:headbang:
 
LOL - stop teasing. ^

Excellent thread - I can see why it was stickied. If Glenn wishes to stay true to the current Prog/Power scene, then it truly is a burden as the years go on to stay fresh, unique, original, etc., particularly with regard to bands that are considered "essential" to the genres. Rising costs to book one-offs, rising hotel costs, airfare costs, more frequent U.S. touring by larger acts (and smaller acts for that matter) & a dwindling number of unique but important (subjective of course) acts that haven't played the fest yet certainly seem to be contributing factors across the board.

In the end, it's simply a matter of personal taste for me. I have a growing limited number of bands in both genres that interest me nowadays as my tastes expand/change, etc. My decision to buy or not buy a ticket will be based solely on my like/dislike of the bands announced in the future. That said, the one thing I know I do not need to worry about is how well run, organized and fun the festival is without regard to the bands. No one does it better, bar none. If there ever was a festival to attend that you're guaranteed a good time whether you like the bands or not, this is it. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Jason
 
To be honest, I went to PPV to see Savatage and feel in love with Adagio and Tad Morose (among many others). From there on out I went to gain knowledge on bands and to see people I had made friends with.

What I know about Sonta and others is what I learn from the board here as well as samplers handed out at the fest.

Unless I really hate a band, you won't really hear me bitching. I've always stood by the fact I am more of a death metal head, but listen to almost all kinds of metal.

I've always tried to go to PP with an open mind seeing as how each year I am only familiar with maybe two of the bands... but most of the time walk away pleasantly suprised.

That's my two cents... keep the change.

-MetalRose
 
+1 to what MetalRose says above - my first PP was last year, and honestly I only went to see Evergrey (it was because of their website that I found out about PPUSA VII at all) and Circle II Circle. Oh, and I was also curious about Leatherwolf because I was a fan back in the 80's, but didn't know the new material with Wade.

My first pass at the sample songs told me that I would hate Mercenary based on the death vocals... how wrong that assumption turned out to be - they totally blew me away, and The Hours That Remain is one of the CD's I have listen to the most since PPUSA ended, and is easily one of my favorite releases in 2006.

I also fell in love with Circus Maximus, Freak Kitchen, Pyramaze, and Vision Divine, and so while I am not as familiar with the prog/power scene as most of you, I enjoyed my first experience tremendously because I was exposed to so much great music I was otherwise unfamiliar with.

So much so that I wound up purchasing CD's from almost all of the bands at the festival and was surprised that I wound up with so many new favorites. I have even started converting some of my friends and am trying to convince them to work on convincing their wives to allow them to come to PPUSA VIII. :lol: I want them to have the experience I had last year... three days of great music, a professional production and the opportunity to meet the greatest metal fans from all over the world... it truly doesn't get any better than this.
 
I'll also echo MetalRose's comment :wave: (hi honey)

Yippee and I went to our first Prog Power to see Blind Guardian. Like everyone else, we fell in love with many bands that year and in love with the fest. To be honest, this year I'm almost a little disappointed (that's not a real complaint) that I DO know so many of the bands announced. I love that every year, Glenn opens us up to so many awesome bands that become our favorites again and again.

Of course, it's awesome to see bands you love on the best stage around with the best friends surrounding you!!!
 
General Zod said:
Agreed. Nevermore would have brought people to ProgPower who have never been to ProgPower. Jorn simply doesn't have that kind of drawing power.

I'm curious to hear, who would you use as an example, of a band who should be able to headline this festival, but can't soley because of the ignorance of the U.S. market.
Zod
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Wow. There's been a lot covered since I last looked in on this thread. First of all I don't think I mentioned the words "can't" or "ignorance." The only "can't" is one Glenn deems to be so. Nevertheless, as was woosta's initial proposition, there are those who have the status, at least by European standards, but would be problematic because:
a) They would generate derision and criticism within the confines of this forum community.
or...
b) They would fail to generate any interest from beyond the confines of this forum community.
or...
c) Both.

As for specific examples I think Vanden Plas is such a band, and maybe to a lesser extent Brainstorm. I think Vanden Plas is a worthy headliner for the main event, keeping in mind that I personally find most Prog.. um.. unexciting, but that they would have generated a "c" outcome. Nevertheless Vanden Plas is a bigger and more established band than Pagan's Mind who fills a four slot.The showcase doesn't count IMO, as a main event second or third slot band is capable of headlining it.

Brainstorm's participation would probably generate some excitement on this forum, although there may be some that disagree with a headliner spot. But I don't think they have enough national recognition to generate sales. Granted I don't have access to Sound Scan or ears everywhere, but I hear no mention, much less buzz, of Brainstorm anywhere other than this forum.

More to the point though, it's the future woosta was concerned about. Sonata Arctica are like "the next" Stratovarious, but some people where surprised that they were headliner caliber. Three or four years from now who will be the next "Sonata Arctica?" It could be a band like Power Quest, who are currently at co-headline status with Pagan's Mind in Europe, but seem to be completely off the radar in the US, and on this forum for that matter.

What will be the reaction to the announcement of Power Quest to headline PPXI? It's not so far fetched, considering no one would have given DragonForce a shot at headlining a year ago, and now they're too big for the fest. And Jon Oliva's Pain without a Savatage "crutch?" Possibly. But as long as everyone only considers the traditional and "expected" headliner names to be worthy anything else is going to potentially be controversial.
 
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