The REAL problem from here on out

[Ramaries]

Wow. There's been a lot covered since I last looked in on this thread. First of all I don't think I mentioned the words "can't" or "ignorance." The only "can't" is one Glenn deems to be so. Nevertheless, as was woosta's initial proposition, there are those who have the status, at least by European standards, but would be problematic because:
a) They would generate derision and criticism within the confines of this forum community.
or...
b) They would fail to generate any interest from beyond the confines of this forum community.
or...
c) Both.

As for specific examples I think Vanden Plas is such a band, and maybe to a lesser extent Brainstorm. I think Vanden Plas is a worthy headliner for the main event, keeping in mind that I personally find most Prog.. um.. unexciting, but that they would have generated a "c" outcome. Nevertheless Vanden Plas is a bigger and more established band than Pagan's Mind who fills a four slot.The showcase doesn't count IMO, as a main event second or third slot band is capable of headlining it.

Brainstorm's participation would probably generate some excitement on this forum, although there may be some that disagree with a headliner spot. But I don't think they have enough national recognition to generate sales. Granted I don't have access to Sound Scan or ears everywhere, but I hear no mention, much less buzz, of Brainstorm anywhere other than this forum.

More to the point though, it's the future woosta was concerned about. Sonata Arctica are like "the next" Stratovarious, but some people where surprised that they were headliner caliber. Three or four years from now who will be the next "Sonata Arctica?" It could be a band like Power Quest, who are currently at co-headline status with Pagan's Mind in Europe, but seem to be completely off the radar in the US, and on this forum for that matter.

What will be the reaction to the announcement of Power Quest to headline PPXI? It's not so far fetched, considering no one would have given DragonForce a shot at headlining a year ago, and now they're too big for the fest. And Jon Oliva's Pain without a Savatage "crutch?" Possibly. But as long as everyone only considers the traditional and "expected" headliner names to be worthy anything else is going to potentially be controversial.

Brainstorm again. Everyone wants Brainstorm and Symphony X. Too many calls for repeat bands I think.

 

[Ramaries]

10 years. Seven albums plus EP's. What does it take exactly?

It is enough. Why no calls for Rhapsody to headline ProgPower VIII?

 

[St Enigma]

It is enough. Why no calls for Rhapsody to headline ProgPower VIII?

Propably because their current price tag suits better for arena-size concerts...

Their "Demons, Dragons and Warriors Tour 2007"-tour with Manowar & HolyHell is booked in venues of the Color Line Arena caliber (13000 seats, max admittance 16000)

 

[dargormudshark]

I really don't mean this to be directly arguementative over the point you are making, which I understand - but I just don't see the bitching people keep mentioning this year. I know last year there was some groaning over Evergrey headlining from the return factor, and then Nevermore has a style that kindof has real love em or hate em appeal, and then Jorn got kindof a 'does he really have the credibility to headline' attitude. But this year...all I've seen is YES YES YES SWEET SWEET SWEET and a whole lot of this dude . I mean, Glenn could book a pretty sure bet headliner for Sat like Symphony X or Angra, both of whom I would imagine would be available if needed or chosen, and this would be largely hailed as the best lineup since PPIII.

Maybe you don't see the bitching because the people who don't like the line-up aren't saying anything. I think most of the people who wouldn't like this line-up realize that there isn't much point in bashing it, what is it going to make Glenn change the line-up, no, so fuck it. It's his fest and if they don't like they don't have to go. This is the only time i've commented on a board I used to post on everyday about its current line-up. This will also be the first time since 4, my first PP, that I won't be going because of the line-up. But just like every year there will be people who hate the line up but realize there isn't much point in saying it. This post isn't to bash the line up but to let you know that there are people, who were at one time die hard about Progpower who hate this line up and are actually saying "I'm not going to Progpower", and it feels pretty wierd for me to say that.

 

[Magius]

Brainstorm again. Everyone wants Brainstorm and Symphony X. Too many calls for repeat bands I think.

I agree to some extent that there are enough repeat bands this year already. I was explaining my position on Brainstorm's status, not suggesting they return.

 

[Magius]

Propably because their current price tag suits better for arena-size concerts...

Their "Demons, Dragons and Warriors Tour 2007"-tour with Manowar & HolyHell is booked in venues of the Color Line Arena caliber (13000 seats, max admittance 16000)

Meh. That same lineup played to 400 people in Atlanta on the last tour.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Maybe you don't see the bitching because the people who don't like the line-up aren't saying anything. I think most of the people who wouldn't like this line-up realize that there isn't much point in bashing it, what is it going to make Glenn change the line-up, no, so fuck it. It's his fest and if they don't like they don't have to go. This is the only time i've commented on a board I used to post on everyday about its current line-up. This will also be the first time since 4, my first PP, that I won't be going because of the line-up. But just like every year there will be people who hate the line up but realize there isn't much point in saying it. This post isn't to bash the line up but to let you know that there are people, who were at one time die hard about Progpower who hate this line up and are actually saying "I'm not going to Progpower", and it feels pretty wierd for me to say that.

What in this lineup is there to bitch about? Am I missing something?

 

[Pellaz]

This will also be the first time since 4, my first PP, that I won't be going because of the line-up. But just like every year there will be people who hate the line up but realize there isn't much point in saying it. This post isn't to bash the line up but to let you know that there are people, who were at one time die hard about Progpower who hate this line up and are actually saying "I'm not going to Progpower", and it feels pretty wierd for me to say that.

We'll miss ya, Andrew!

 

[Ruthven]

We'll miss ya, Andrew!

Ditto.

 

[General Zod]

Wow. There's been a lot covered since I last looked in on this thread. First of all I don't think I mentioned the words "can't" or "ignorance."

Those words may not have been specifically used, but it seemed to me they were implied. And for the record, I wasn't offended by what I thought was your implication, nor was I suggesting you're wrong. I was merely trying to better understand your perspective.

More to the point though, it's the future woosta was concerned about. Sonata Arctica are like "the next" Stratovarious, but some people where surprised that they were headliner caliber. Three or four years from now who will be the next "Sonata Arctica?" It could be a band like Power Quest, who are currently at co-headline status with Pagan's Mind in Europe, but seem to be completely off the radar in the US, and on this forum for that matter.

And therein lies the problem; Power Metal has become a relatively stagnant genre. Where are the bands breaking the confines of the genre, expanding its boundaries and finding their own voice? Why should a band who is a 3rd generation version of Stratovarius interest anyone, other than young fans for whom the music is new by default? Over the last five years I've grown less and less interested in this genre. With a few notable exceptions, 99% of the bands seem to travel the same beaten path. Even the good bands in this genre fail to evolve their sound, from disc to disc, as much as the bands I listen to in other sub-genres of Metal.

Zod

 

[Met-Al]

All of your points are very exceptional. It just goes to show that there really isn't one problem associated with booking for the festival. This isn't merely a hobby for Glenn. This sort of issue has been beaten to death on this forum. What everyone needs to understand is that this isn't just some fan getting a bunch of bands he likes together for a weekend and having the time of his life. If that were the case, this festival would never have lasted as long as it has. This is also a business venture, and a very risky one at that. People look at the phrase, "It's a labor of love" and only seem to notice the "love" part of it. In short, new problems will present themselves year after year. So far, those problems have not taken the life out of this festival. If that happens, then I'll bitch and/or worry.


Stay metal. Never rust.
Met-Al

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

We'll miss ya, Andrew!

Triple Ditto

 

[Magius]

Those words may not have been specifically used, but it seemed to me they were implied. And for the record, I wasn't offended by what I thought was your implication, nor was I suggesting you're wrong. I was merely trying to better understand your perspective.
Zod

Actually, by strict definition, that was my implication. However, words like "ignorance" tend to be somewhat provocative and get peoples' hackles up. I wanted to defuse anyone considering going ballistic over a perceived bashing of US fan or some such issue, which was not my intent. It happens here.

And therein lies the problem; Power Metal has become a relatively stagnant genre. Where are the bands breaking the confines of the genre, expanding its boundaries and finding their own voice? Why should a band who is a 3rd generation version of Stratovarius interest anyone, other than young fans for whom the music is new by default? Over the last five years I've grown less and less interested in this genre. With a few notable exceptions, 99% of the bands seem to travel the same beaten path. Even the good bands in this genre fail to evolve their sound, from disc to disc, as much as the bands I listen to in other sub-genres of Metal.
Zod

I’d be interested in a 3rd generation version of Stratovarius if they’re good at what they do. I don’t disagree with your contention; however, I feel most of the genres I listen to are relatively stagnant, so the criticism can't be leveled at Power Metal alone. Except for the seemingly more frequent use of either Folk or Technical elements I don't see much change in any genre that I listen to.
I'm not a huge Prog fan, but I listen to some of it, and I really don't see Circus Maximus and Dreamscape breaking ground not already explored by Dream Theater and Conception. Zero Hour is more technical than those bands, but what they're doing isn't really new. Orphaned Land incorporates their Middle Eastern folk influences, which makes for a cool sound, but there's nothing Earth shattering about it.
The Gothenburg-Melodic Death school isn't extremely diverse IMO. The bands vary in the amount of Death vs. Clean vox, and melody vs. technicality they use to some degree. But sometimes- and it's true of Power Metal also- unless I know who I'm listening to I don't see a lot of difference between Soilwork, Scar Symmetry, and Hypocrisy. Granted they have songs that stand out and make me take notice. There's also a lot of songs that are as generic of the genre as they can possibly be.
The Traditional Metal Bands that are still around are putting out carbon copies of albums they put out 10-15 years ago, which is anything but evolutionary. I doubt there's been an original thought in the collective heads of the AOR, Hard Rock, and Melodic Metal genres since 1982. Yeah, that was a cheap shot, I know, but hey... it was there.
All that said, I don’t care if a band isn’t original if they do what they’ve chosen to do well. As far as I’m concerned there are many clones are better than the original, and if they entertain me I’ll be listening.

 

[General Zod]

All that said, I don’t care if a band isn’t original if they do what they’ve chosen to do well. As far as I’m concerned there are many clones are better than the original, and if they entertain me I’ll be listening.

But music which is completely unoriginal has diminished entertainment value. Take the new Firewind disc as an example. The songs are well written. But at the same time, they were written based on a blueprint. It's Power Metal paint by numbers. So, it's entertaining for a few listens, but it grows tired quickly. A band needs to have some element that distinguishes them from the herd or I'll tire of them within the week.

Zod

 

[Harvester]

A band needs to have some element that distinguishes them from the herd or I'll tire of them within the week.

Zod

Which do you prefer?

a. An element that distinguishes a band
B. An original element.

You aren't allowed to say both.

I choose "A" over all else no matter what. That element could be something as simple as a catchy riff or bombastic chorus that gets me singing along in the car with the windows rolled down. When that happens, I don't think "wait a sec..that's been done before."

I would bet that once you start choosing B all the time (and I know you don't every single time at the moment because you do like Circus Maximus), you end up posting at Royal Carnage more than here. :Smug:

 

[General Zod]

Which do you prefer?

a. An element that distinguishes a band
B. An original element.

You aren't allowed to say both.

A. It's not important to me that music be completely original, just not plagiarized. For instance, I wouldn't call Tad Morose "groundbreaking" in any way, shape or form. But Urban's voice, along with those fantastic choruses, and monster riffs, just keep me coming back again and again.

I choose "A" over all else no matter what. That element could be something as simple as a catchy riff or bombastic chorus that gets me singing along in the car with the windows rolled down. When that happens, I don't think "wait a sec..that's been done before."

I'm with you. If it makes me reach for the volume knob, I like it. I don't need to get any more philosophic than that.

I would bet that once you start choosing B all the time, you end up posting at Royal Carnage more than here. :Smug:

LOL. My Top 20 still seems to be a very balanced mix of here and there. And more often than not, the stuff from here ends up at the top (this year, Zero Hour was my favorite CD... followed by Amon Amarth).

Zod

 

[SymphonyOfDreams]

Zero Hour is more technical than those bands, but what they're doing isn't really new.

Then again, they are probably the only band still carrying around that sound where almost all the bands that helped shape it just went on for 1 album.

Prog rock or metal some how is still delivering great new bands with loads and loads of experimentation... sure none of them are like Faith No More original or something, but their sound is quite distinct to the point where you can just hear the music and know who they are.

 

[Exploding Ned]

Holy geez here we go again. Ok, so here's my views as if anyone wants to hear them. I don't give a flying pile of horse shit about 'drawing power'. I care about how good a band is. Now, when that standard becomes yesterday's news, I will no longer go to any concerts. Period. Running out of big names? BULLSHIT! Not much talent left? Yeah right. I could easily go overboard on listing bands that are POWER and/or PROG metal (y'know, as in the NAME OF THE FEST!) who would blow nearly all away, even the little whiney ones who sit in their mommy's basement on the computer all day pissing and moaning about everything. There is so much great power metal coming out of Europe these days that Glenn could put on 2 PPs a year for 20 years and not even come close to running out of talent. And yes I fully agree with the statement to GET OFF YOUR ASS AND LISTEN TO SOME NEW BANDS. 'I don't know Elvenking'. WHAT?!?!?! Y'know, back in the early 80s, I drove an hour each way to Atlanta every other week to get the latest Kerrang, so I could find out about the latest NWOBHM and other bands, and hell, now we have computers for chrissakes! There is no excuse to sit on the sidelines. You say you support metal? FUCKING PROVE IT! LEARN about these amazing power and prog metal bands coming out of Europe. And stop whining! OK, now I can relax ha ha

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Holy geez here we go again. Ok, so here's my views as if anyone wants to hear them. I don't give a flying pile of horse shit about 'drawing power'. I care about how good a band is. Now, when that standard becomes yesterday's news, I will no longer go to any concerts. Period. Running out of big names? BULLSHIT! Not much talent left? Yeah right. I could easily go overboard on listing bands that are POWER and/or PROG metal (y'know, as in the NAME OF THE FEST!) who would blow nearly all away, even the little whiney ones who sit in their mommy's basement on the computer all day pissing and moaning about everything. There is so much great power metal coming out of Europe these days that Glenn could put on 2 PPs a year for 20 years and not even come close to running out of talent. And yes I fully agree with the statement to GET OFF YOUR ASS AND LISTEN TO SOME NEW BANDS. 'I don't know Elvenking'. WHAT?!?!?! Y'know, back in the early 80s, I drove an hour each way to Atlanta every other week to get the latest Kerrang, so I could find out about the latest NWOBHM and other bands, and hell, now we have computers for chrissakes! There is no excuse to sit on the sidelines. You say you support metal? FUCKING PROVE IT! LEARN about these amazing power and prog metal bands coming out of Europe. And stop whining! OK, now I can relax ha ha

Amen, brother!!!

 

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

Amen, brother!!!

yeah, i have to say AMEN