The ultimate IR, NEBULA, REAL DEAL test
- Thread starter Skaldir
- Start date
Thanks for all the votes. 
I must say I'm a bit dissapointed by Jeff did not vote. There is a lot of "elitist talk" here and to me this "in the mix it would be different" talk might be true, but when its so easy to find out what is what why people did vote so different?
Also just put the files in a mix and find out what is what then.
But I must admit I also have the feeling (no prove though) that the Nebula volterra takes post processing better than an normal impulse.
Though it is a fact that moving the mic 1 cm makes way more difference in sound than using convulsion at the same mic position.
I must say I'm a bit dissapointed by Jeff did not vote. There is a lot of "elitist talk" here and to me this "in the mix it would be different" talk might be true, but when its so easy to find out what is what why people did vote so different?
Also just put the files in a mix and find out what is what then.
But I must admit I also have the feeling (no prove though) that the Nebula volterra takes post processing better than an normal impulse.
Though it is a fact that moving the mic 1 cm makes way more difference in sound than using convulsion at the same mic position.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I've done blind compressor shoot-outs where people have preferred ITB to OTB units, where it's commonly accepted that ITB compressors don't do the envelopes right. Isolated tests ultimately have little real-life relevance. Just like that test on GS where most people preferred a Behringer ADA8000 conversion to a Lynx Aurora. It's about the cumulative effect. Whether we are talking about the benefits of using high quality mic preamps, or stacking tracks to see what retains midrange clarity best, it isn't about reducing it to a microcosm and analyzing in microscopic detail. It's about what feels right at the end of the day, and what provides beneficial results on a consistent basis. If you compared directly on most speaker systems a majority of people wouldn't be able to tell tracks recorded through an API 3124+ or an Mbox 3, but nonetheless we use the high quality pres for the entire record, because we know down the track it will matter.
Of course moving a mic 1cm will sound more different to a source tone than making an IR of the same position. That's assuming we are judging the differences on a linear scale. The moved mic will still sound more dynamic than the IR, regardless of being different to the source tone, with probably a highly deviant frequency response.
It isn't about how similar or different the IR sounds to the real cab at first glance - it's about how well it retains that illusion in a full arrangement, after it has had a chain of processing applied to it, and is expected to hold down vital midrange frequencies like rhythm guitar tones in metal generally have to. Once again, if I had found IR-based cabinet simulation satisfactory for this I would never outsource reamps. It costs me and my clients time, and I already have all the amps I would ever want to reamp here into IRs, power amp and all. The clips I posted on the other thread show clear, mix-related results. The IR-based tones always create greater congestion in the midrange frequencies in the finished product. Whether or not people are going to validate this by listening to isolated guitar tone samples is irrelevant.
Of course moving a mic 1cm will sound more different to a source tone than making an IR of the same position. That's assuming we are judging the differences on a linear scale. The moved mic will still sound more dynamic than the IR, regardless of being different to the source tone, with probably a highly deviant frequency response.
It isn't about how similar or different the IR sounds to the real cab at first glance - it's about how well it retains that illusion in a full arrangement, after it has had a chain of processing applied to it, and is expected to hold down vital midrange frequencies like rhythm guitar tones in metal generally have to. Once again, if I had found IR-based cabinet simulation satisfactory for this I would never outsource reamps. It costs me and my clients time, and I already have all the amps I would ever want to reamp here into IRs, power amp and all. The clips I posted on the other thread show clear, mix-related results. The IR-based tones always create greater congestion in the midrange frequencies in the finished product. Whether or not people are going to validate this by listening to isolated guitar tone samples is irrelevant.
BlackwingGabriel
feels so good.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Matt-Steele
Member
Thanks for all the votes.
I must say I'm a bit dissapointed by Jeff did not vote. There is a lot of "elitist talk"
+1
"elitist talk" is a perfect way to put it. I have a LOT more I'd like to say about many of these bullshit comments, (I can pick out the shitty impulse a mile away) but it won't solve anything. Nice test Unicorn.
Couldn't agree more. As I said in the previous thread, things of this nature to me, are much more important to the final guitar tone in contrast to the guitar being convolved or miked.
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
I think I allready heared something like this somewhere, someone miced up a kit took impulse, recorded riff + poweramp out and ran it through the impulse...
The difference was a small as it could be, and I was surprised at that point how similar it sounded.
But then again I had the same experiences as described here with the impulse issue: at the end of the day when you finished the mix, real guitar mixes breath more,
sound "bigger" were impulses tend to have a static feel to them.
For a long time I couldn't point my finger on it because "impulses sound so similar to the mic'ed thing solo'd".
I hear differences, I'm not 100% sure how to interpretate them, so I'll try my luck:
B Amp
A Nebula
C Impulse
B has that feel to it I know from micing a cab I think...really not sure about A and C tho' as I always switch mind when I listen to it again on those two
The difference was a small as it could be, and I was surprised at that point how similar it sounded.
But then again I had the same experiences as described here with the impulse issue: at the end of the day when you finished the mix, real guitar mixes breath more,
sound "bigger" were impulses tend to have a static feel to them.
For a long time I couldn't point my finger on it because "impulses sound so similar to the mic'ed thing solo'd".
I hear differences, I'm not 100% sure how to interpretate them, so I'll try my luck:
B Amp
A Nebula
C Impulse
B has that feel to it I know from micing a cab I think...really not sure about A and C tho' as I always switch mind when I listen to it again on those two
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Thanks for all the votes.
I must say I'm a bit dissapointed by Jeff did not vote. There is a lot of "elitist talk" here and to me this "in the mix it would be different" talk might be true, but when its so easy to find out what is what why people did vote so different?
As mentioned in my post before, I've just had laptop speakers to judge on and I'm not going to claim to be able to hear the difference through those. I'm back at my usual setup as of later today, and I'll listen and vote then since it apparently seems so vital to you that I do.
But seriously, we've explained it well enough so that there's no "might be true" aspect - putting them in a mix is the vital part, and it shouldn't be up to us to make a backing track to validate your claims of things sounding equal.
Lastly, I'm to be considered an elitest for wanting to mic up a fucking guitar cabinet? Holy shit... are any of you guys even remotely interested in engineering, at all? Are there really that few people on this forum that actually record and work with bands so rarely that they actually prefer impulses? No wonder people voted so differently - apparently nobody has any real-world experience any more.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
If I'm being elitest then you're being a passive-aggressive little girl with these kinds of comments. Just come out and say it.
jipchen
ForesterStudio
What the..? First off this is no elitist talk, but real world experience and simple facts. Miced tracks and ampsims [edit: I meant IRs, not ampsims. Sorry] will sound different in the mix and it will "react" differently to processing, even if the raw tracks might sound amazingly close. That's what all this "elitist talk" is about.
The only bullshit comment I spot in this thread is the one I quoted. Yours.
And yeah it's hilarious how preferring a real miked cab is now considered elitist.
I'm no native speaker, but it sounds pretty ignorant to me when you consider I put this up based on your posts in the other thread to show how close methods can be when done correct.
Nobody said its elitist wanting to mic up a cab! I also like to mic cabs, but I wanted to show that you don't need to worry when you don't have a cab around and use impulses. Its not that it must suddenly suck when you do.
I really don't know why you are so militant in your opinion.
I rather have problems with real drums sounding like drum computers, but not with a very small difference that a cab IR makes in the mix.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Please note that ampsims are not a matter in this test at all!
Nobody said preferring a real cab is elitist!!!!!
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Haha yeah, my bad. What I meant is of course impulse responses. I read a thread about ampsims at the same time, guess it was a Freudian slip.
Should've said "miced tracks and tracks with IR will sound different in the mix"
I will later have a listen on the monitors and try to vote too.
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Have no idea which one is which, but I like B the best and A the least...
Edit: Whoops, only listened to the distorted sounds by the way, but who cares about clean guitars anyway?
Edit: Whoops, only listened to the distorted sounds by the way, but who cares about clean guitars anyway?
Mago
Austrian Blech Machine
I've been waiting for a chance to use this one .. now is as good a time as any
had to be pretty hard for you to hold that one back dude...
how long did you resist?
Like 3 days or something?
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
had to be pretty hard for you to hold that one back dude...
how long did you resist?
Like 3 days or something?
longest 3 days of my life bro
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