The ultimate IR, NEBULA, REAL DEAL test
- Thread starter Skaldir
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Matt-Steele
Member
The "elitist" comments I'm speaking of are the ones stating that they are experts and can spot an impulsed guitar track a mile away with ease when they can't.
I never said that preferring miked cabs is elitist. Telling everyone you can spot an impulsed guitar over a real miked guitar with ease is. Obviously from all the different responses in this thread, it's not so cut and dry and the poster in this thread who was shooting his mouth off how simple and easy it is for him to pick out the impulsed guitars "all day" has only given excuses.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Oh fuck off, I'm sorry that these clips were posted in the middle of a Memorial Day trip that kept be from being anywhere near a set of real speakers for more than 36 hours. I'll listen and give my vote after 4PM PST, like I've explained before.
Funny that you're being so uppity about this, though - you're one of the biggest proponents of impulses in this debate and I'm not even sure you've ever posted a mix or example during your tenure at the forum. How do any of us even know we should be taking your opinion on the matter seriously?
Matt-Steele
Member
Elitist much?
More excuses?
I've posted clips here. Do a search. I've even posted clips for Ermz before. From my postings on this board, Redwire asked me for my original files so they could see how I was using their impulses in my mixes. I'm not trying to prove anything, and I'm not trying to say I'm the best or have greater abilities than anyone else here. I'm bringing a viewpoint to this discussion of my belief that impulses vs miked cabinets don't really make a huge difference to me. I will will speak up when someone makes statements as fact when they really are only opinion though as you have, and I really can't understand how close minded you are to how upset you are over IR's not being dynamic enough for you. I have used impulses and I've miked speakers as well. I try to keep my mind open to anything.
jipchen
ForesterStudio
Ok I seriously need a new pair of ears. There is almost no audible difference to me, everytime I think I head a difference and do a blindtest I realize I was fooling myself.
There is a difference but I can't put my finger on it. And that's cool really, impulses are a good way to get nice sounding guitars if you can't crank an amp (or fail to record its sound well enough *ahem*, don't look at me
)
I still think "real" tracks with the miced guitar cabinet sound better in the mix even if the tone's character is nearly the same.. then again "good sound" is subjective so it can probably be narrowed down to "they will act differently when processed and in a mix
There is a difference but I can't put my finger on it. And that's cool really, impulses are a good way to get nice sounding guitars if you can't crank an amp (or fail to record its sound well enough *ahem*, don't look at me
)I still think "real" tracks with the miced guitar cabinet sound better in the mix even if the tone's character is nearly the same.. then again "good sound" is subjective so it can probably be narrowed down to "they will act differently when processed and in a mix
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Yes, me telling you to 'fuck off' for being passive-aggressive and not addressing me directly is elitest.
I don't have to prove myself to you - are you looking for an itinerary or something? Get real - I'm not avoiding the clips; I actually can't wait to hear them now just so I can put this whole thing to rest.
Fair enough, I'll have to find those, again, when I have speakers. But no, IR's are not nearly dynamic enough for me. If they were, I'd be in heaven. I'd LOVE it if an IR could replace micing up a cabinet, but there's a reason I keep coming back to my Mesa. It's just not at all the same, and to argue that the difference is negligible is more 'elitest' than my preference for real cabinets.
On another note, if anyone can point me to a good impulse creator for OS X or will create sine sweeps/deconvolve sweeps for me, I'll be more than happy to make my own cabinet vs impulse-of-same-setup comparisons, with a backing track, in a week or so when I'm out of an apartment and back in a place I can crank a cabinet in.
Unless that's just too much of an excuse to be plausible for you, Matt?
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
@ jipchen: I'll send you a new pair of ears if you send me your S3A's 
Although I suspect them to suck if you can't hear any difference at all... (it's subtle but it's there, focus on the low end for example).
@ JeffTD and Matt-Steele: Stop the argument and birds calling now please, or keep doing that by MP thank you.
Although I suspect them to suck if you can't hear any difference at all... (it's subtle but it's there, focus on the low end for example).@ JeffTD and Matt-Steele: Stop the argument and birds calling now please, or keep doing that by MP thank you.
botus99
Microphone Assassin
Dear Jeff and Matt, your argument is annoying to read. If you REALLY wanna wave your dicks at each other this badly, do it through PM's.
edit: haha totally missed your comment Brett
edit: haha totally missed your comment Brett
Rex Rocker
Call me Hugo!
Matt-Steele
Member
Jeff, I'm not asking you to prove yourself to me. Just calling you out on your statements and (what I consider) boastful promises. That's all. I could care less how you process your guitars. My entire point is that I will call out anyone who has an opinion and states it as a proven fact, especially when I don't completely agree with their statements.
I am happy to agree to disagree and put my dick away (as botus99 suggests) as long as you understand my agenda.
On your side note, I may just add that I have found that not all convolution processors are created equal as I'm sure Kazrog will agree to from his own findings.
On paper, if you use the same impulse, it shouldn't matter what convolution reverb processor you use, they should all create the same output, but I've found they don't. For instance the convolution processor in ReValver is drastically different sounding than the likes of Altiverb. So not only does the IR make a difference in the final produced sound but the actual convolution processor also makes audible differences in the final sound and may be helping degrade the sound quality.
Myself, I'm running on PC and I've done an extensive search on as many convolution processors as I can find to find the one that fits my needs the best. I can't speak for the convolution processors on the Mac, but the last I checked, they were very few and far between. So an additional reason you may find IR's unattractive is there aren't many good choices for convolution processors on the Mac?
guitarguru777
Member
OMG Matt ... WTF didnt you read in Bretts comments.
There is NO elitism here. The simple fact that the test is an UNFAIR one is valid. He specifically stated in the other thread that it was IN A MIX, as is ERMZ.
Unicorn I appreciate you going through the trouble of doing the comparison, and I will agree in the solo'd clips they sound remarkably similar, but if you want a fair test put them in a mix.
(EDIT) See..... sometimes I stick up for Jeff too even though he has a stick up his butt
There is NO elitism here. The simple fact that the test is an UNFAIR one is valid. He specifically stated in the other thread that it was IN A MIX, as is ERMZ.
Unicorn I appreciate you going through the trouble of doing the comparison, and I will agree in the solo'd clips they sound remarkably similar, but if you want a fair test put them in a mix.
(EDIT) See..... sometimes I stick up for Jeff too even though he has a stick up his butt
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Matt, which of the PC convolution processors (and it's convolution guys, not convulsion, a convulsion is what you have when your having a seizure )
)
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
Matt, which of the PC convolution processors (and it's convolution guys, not convulsion, a convulsion is what you have when you're having a seizure
fixed
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Matt you seriously have horrible reading comprehension skills. Jeff clearly said in a mix, more than once. How hard is that to understand? He's not being elitist, he's just fucking right. IR's are not as dynamic as speakers. That is pure fucking fact. Irrefutable. Period. The argument has always been that in a mix (oh! there it is again - and again in case you can't comprehend it - in a MIX!) impulses fall to the real thing. You can like them all you want. That doesn't make them dynamic. That doesn't make them not fall apart with processing (compared to real speakers). That doesn't make them just as good or even better.
This, coming from someone that is a major advocate of impulses and uses them all the time on final mixes. So don't try and call me elitist
This, coming from someone that is a major advocate of impulses and uses them all the time on final mixes. So don't try and call me elitist
Well this blind test does not involve a mix, deal with it guys. It is still interesting, there are still things to be learned here, and it is not any more or less worthwhile than if it were in a mix, seeing as you guys are already dead set on your opinions anyways. Militant was the perfect word to describe some of the people on this forum.
ForHerDeadEyes
Señor Member
Unicorn.. I need your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle..
And I also need to know the answers..
And I also need to know the answers..
I'm pretty interested to see the results actually. I noticed a few things between the files. In each test, there were two clips that had a better low end response, and one that was slightly lacking. Between the 2 more similar sounding clips, one had some areas that peaked a little higher in both the clean and distorted test. So I came to the conclusion that the one that had that tiny bit more 'oomph' to it was the real mic'd cab. I would assume the other 'beefier' clips would be the Nebula file and the weak one was the IR.
I'm probably totally wrong though.
I'm probably totally wrong though.
Matt-Steele
Member
Matt you seriously have horrible reading comprehension skills. Jeff clearly said in a mix, more than once. How hard is that to understand? He's not being elitist, he's just fucking right. IR's are not as dynamic as speakers. That is pure fucking fact. Irrefutable. Period. The argument has always been that in a mix (oh! there it is again - and again in case you can't comprehend it - in a MIX!) impulses fall to the real thing. You can like them all you want. That doesn't make them dynamic. That doesn't make them not fall apart with processing (compared to real speakers). That doesn't make them just as good or even better.
This, coming from someone that is a major advocate of impulses and uses them all the time on final mixes. So don't try and call me elitist
I'm primarily discussing a single comment made by Jeff... Maybe you missed it.
This is the comment I have issue with. It is NOT a fact. This is a subjective matter anyway you slice it. I've heard what I consider horrible sounding recordings with miced guitars, and I've heard some amazing sounding guitars that were convolved, Splat 88 from this forum to name 1. I would be happy with any mix from him incorporating impulses compared to loads of recordings incorporating miced guitars.
I'm sorry, what is your question?
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