AeternusEternus
Member
- Oct 8, 2008
- 601
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The ultimate IR, NEBULA, REAL DEAL test
- Thread starter Skaldir
- Start date
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Wow, I REALLY suck, gotta quit iPhone posting - what I meant to say was which of the convolution processors for PC that you tested did you find sounded the best?
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
To me it proved the exact opposite. Results havent been posted yet but I'm pretty damn sure I'm right (and it seems a lot of the engineers that are a lot more experienced with real amps have the same opinion as me), and it's just proved how, instantly, there's a huge difference between impulses and the real thing. I could literally hear it as soon as the chord was struck, through iPod earphones. Between B and C was definitely harder though.
Strangely, I think its easier to notice the difference between impulse and cabs solo'd rather than in a mix. Altho the most glaring difference was in Ermz's "Untruth" mix, with the cab'd rhythms and impulse'd leads. HUGE difference there.
Good god, are you being deliberately obtuse (I'm pretty sure I'm stealing this line from someone but I love it) or are you being serious here? Of course, running something through s-pres-high is going to be better than running something through my friend's Line 6 Spider cab in my garage. No fucking shit. But running something through s-pres-high is going to be WORSE (read: less dynamic, static midrange, muddy lowmids, less whoompy lows, more obvious fizz - if these things are to your taste then maybe it's not "worse") than running something through the exact same setup Ryan used to create s-pres-high.
Finally, I'm surprised that I found this so easy (man it's going to be really embarassing if I'm wrong), and lots of others found this really hard, whereas when I posted an mp3 comparison, people found that relatively easy whereas I found it almost impossible to tell even a 128kpbs from a .wav file.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Alright, I've listened and played around with some EQ in my DAW.
Distortion;
1 - Impulse
2 - Amp
3 - Nebula
Don't care about the cleans as I think direct tones are more than fine there.
*Edit* I will say that these were surprisingly close - certainly the best impulse set I've heard, as far as being accurate to a cabinet, but still not quite there.
Distortion;
1 - Impulse
2 - Amp
3 - Nebula
Don't care about the cleans as I think direct tones are more than fine there.
*Edit* I will say that these were surprisingly close - certainly the best impulse set I've heard, as far as being accurate to a cabinet, but still not quite there.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Once again, this is out of context. If you read my posts in that thread, you can clearly see that when I say mic'd vs impulse, I'm talking about holding all things equal... a mic'd amp vs the impulse of that same exact setup - impulse will sound worse every time, and I still stand by that
ForHerDeadEyes
Señor Member
Not to get too involved in this debate..
But..
IMO.. A impulse isn't as good as the real deal, in the context of having a cab mic'd and having an impulse of that exact setup..
I use impulses and will try to combine them with a real cab, don't know if you guys have tried that successfully....?
JeffTD mentions impulses being static in a mix, I agree, but does the static remain when introducing a real cab as well?
Like I said, I use impulses and I think it's great having a library of cabs and not having to worry about soundlevels, neighbours, space etc..
And regular mortals don't even know what a cab is..
Listening to this test on my pc speakers, didn't hear a difference.. until I listened on more professional headphones (answered earlier in the thread)
So I understand people liking impulses and using them.. I like'em.. and I'll use'em.. I need'em..
But I don't believe anyone would mic their cab and say "Hey, I'll make an impulse of this setup and use the impulse, on the record, instead"
That's my 2 cents..
Anywho..
Unicorn.. Do give answers now that the one you were waiting for has answered..
But..
IMO.. A impulse isn't as good as the real deal, in the context of having a cab mic'd and having an impulse of that exact setup..
I use impulses and will try to combine them with a real cab, don't know if you guys have tried that successfully....?
JeffTD mentions impulses being static in a mix, I agree, but does the static remain when introducing a real cab as well?
Like I said, I use impulses and I think it's great having a library of cabs and not having to worry about soundlevels, neighbours, space etc..
And regular mortals don't even know what a cab is..
Listening to this test on my pc speakers, didn't hear a difference.. until I listened on more professional headphones (answered earlier in the thread)
So I understand people liking impulses and using them.. I like'em.. and I'll use'em.. I need'em..
But I don't believe anyone would mic their cab and say "Hey, I'll make an impulse of this setup and use the impulse, on the record, instead"
That's my 2 cents..
Anywho..
Unicorn.. Do give answers now that the one you were waiting for has answered..
LeSedna
Mat or Mateo
We're not gonna learn a single thing in this thread. We're gonna discover most of us have been fooled, and it won't make impulses better in a mix all of a sudden, and we'll be at the starting point again.
Audiosprite
ok
Empathy
Bulging Member
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Ok guys, here are the results for both distorted and clean.
A - Real Amp
B - Nebula
C - IR
Congrats to BlackwindGabriel, Kev, CAlexanderParra and Brandon E. for guessing right!
Enjoy your meal!
A - Real Amp
B - Nebula
C - IR
Congrats to BlackwindGabriel, Kev, CAlexanderParra and Brandon E. for guessing right!
Enjoy your meal!
For me it was very interesting that a lot of people thought Nebula was the real deal.
I can relate, because it kinda adds some harmonic content that makes you believe it is the most complete.
NAT3, the Nebula sampler, was kinda buggy in the high kernel orders, so I even didn't go full with them. But now after AHD was implemented this should be solved. Also microkernels are now develeoped which will save some CPU afaik.
One more thing, I found out Nebula can add some artifacts when you downmix in non-realtime. So I would recommend to make a realtime downmix when a Nebula plugin is in the mix.
Yesterday I got a second Telefunken v672. Its the most detailed pre-amp I ever heard. I'll post a comparision soon.
If somebody is interested, I will release an IR & Nebula Cab library soon when I'm done testing the new AHD.
I can relate, because it kinda adds some harmonic content that makes you believe it is the most complete.
NAT3, the Nebula sampler, was kinda buggy in the high kernel orders, so I even didn't go full with them. But now after AHD was implemented this should be solved. Also microkernels are now develeoped which will save some CPU afaik.
One more thing, I found out Nebula can add some artifacts when you downmix in non-realtime. So I would recommend to make a realtime downmix when a Nebula plugin is in the mix.
Yesterday I got a second Telefunken v672. Its the most detailed pre-amp I ever heard. I'll post a comparision soon.
If somebody is interested, I will release an IR & Nebula Cab library soon when I'm done testing the new AHD.
Congrats to BlackwindGabriel, Kev, CAlexanderParra for guessing right!
Enjoy your meal!
Dont forget about me man! hahahah. I think it was obvious that C was the impulse, it lacked major depth compared to the other 2 and had that annoying unnatural and harsh high end. That was the only answer I was really confident in. I'm impressed with Nebula though, hell if it can fool Greg, Ermz, and Jeff they're doing something right.
FF666
Member
- Feb 12, 2008
- 305
- 0
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Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Interesting results, and if I had to pick again I'd do it all the same way. B sounded the most realistic to me, while ironically I found A to be markedly worse. This is the second time Nebula has fooled me in a 3-way cab shoot out like this, and may go some way toward explaining my rampant fanboyism for the software.
This is consistent with my experiences with IRs in the past. Countless times I've dialed IR-based tones back here that, on first listen, totally annihilated any real reamps I'd received. Each time I thought 'okay, outstanding, we can just go ahead', yet every single one of those times I wasn't happy with how the IR-based tone sat in the mix. Ultimately I'd capitulate and use the worse-sounding real amp reamps and manage to tweak them into the mix much more convincingly. I still don't know why this happens - I just know that it's been a common, and consistent experience, and describes the deception I alluded to in the other thread.
What's the answer? Who knows. Maybe every single one of the dozens of times I've tried IR-based tones in the mix, in spite of them sounding originally better than the real mic'ed tones, I just mixed the guitars poorly. Maybe there are characteristics inherent to IRs in specific bands that come uncovered more with processing, and when overlaid with other tracks competing for the same frequency real-estate. Maybe there are filter-related issues that become more pronounced once EQing goes on top of the IR.
As always, it beats me... but this thread ignites hope again in Nebula being the cure - much as it is for ITB console saturation & EQ. Thanks for the test Unicorn, and I look forward to those IR packs of yours.
This is consistent with my experiences with IRs in the past. Countless times I've dialed IR-based tones back here that, on first listen, totally annihilated any real reamps I'd received. Each time I thought 'okay, outstanding, we can just go ahead', yet every single one of those times I wasn't happy with how the IR-based tone sat in the mix. Ultimately I'd capitulate and use the worse-sounding real amp reamps and manage to tweak them into the mix much more convincingly. I still don't know why this happens - I just know that it's been a common, and consistent experience, and describes the deception I alluded to in the other thread.
What's the answer? Who knows. Maybe every single one of the dozens of times I've tried IR-based tones in the mix, in spite of them sounding originally better than the real mic'ed tones, I just mixed the guitars poorly. Maybe there are characteristics inherent to IRs in specific bands that come uncovered more with processing, and when overlaid with other tracks competing for the same frequency real-estate. Maybe there are filter-related issues that become more pronounced once EQing goes on top of the IR.
As always, it beats me... but this thread ignites hope again in Nebula being the cure - much as it is for ITB console saturation & EQ. Thanks for the test Unicorn, and I look forward to those IR packs of yours.
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