UM Hall of Fame April '16 Edition

[Omni]

Norsecore is actually a term ascribed to a specific musical style of black metal. Marduk is basically the flagship norsecore band. It's a type of blasty and aggressive black metal popular among Scandinavian bands.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

"Greatness" can't be used to describe Venom? So you still have no argument other than your personal distaste for their music (which is perfectly fine to have, but you shouldn't be using it to dictate who you vote into the "Hall of Fame" of all things)?

HoF is a popularity contest. If they get enough votes they get in, simple as that. I'm just expressing my perspective, which seems to threaten a lot of herd metal fans.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I picked bands that I like.I didn't argue against a band that definitely belongs in a metal hall of fame, which the bands that you named don't really represent.

Facts about Venom:

1. They are extremely influential on multiple styles of metal. Bands as diverse as Metallica, Celtic Frost and Mayhem were influenced by them.
2. They are generally well-liked by metal enthusiasts and have multiple albums that are highly regarded.
3. They have historical significance and received a lot of attention from mainstream media. They don't exist in a vacuum of underground metal culture.

Tell me what about them makes them not worthy of being in a hall of fame aside from your minority opinion. The three things that I listed are more than enough for an internet hall of fame.

The only thing that will be "more than enough" is sufficent votes. That's how this works.

And you can have whatever measure you want to create your list and I can have mine; no criteria were articulated at the start, so my mode of evaluation is just as valid as yours.

And sure, I'm glad Venom exists for influencing better bands. In that sense they were a catalyst for greateness. But they themselves never created anything above good. Profoundly overrated when evaluated in itself.

 

[Omni]

If the only requirement to be in is getting enough votes as you say, Venom meets that requirement so they're deserving of being in.

You'll never admit it, but you know that you were incorrect when you said Venom is merely a footnote in metal history. The fact that you find them overrated can't possibly make that a valid statement.

 

[The Ozzman]

Could everyone shut up about it? You all gave your votes and there are no criteria given to evaluate your votes. Drop the discussion.

 

[Baroque]

I wouldn't mind doing it. This is one of my favorite things on these forums along with the mixtape games. You let me know if you're cool with me being the operator, or if you want someone else.

Sure, help yourself. I remember you had some good ideas for the thread. You can always pass it along to someone else if you need to also.

I have an Excel spreadsheet with the previous results. If you'd like to PM me an email or something, I can send it to you.

 

[Omni]

Could everyone shut up about it? You all gave your votes and there are no criteria given to evaluate your votes. Drop the discussion.

I don't see how this discussion was harmful or off-topic, especially considering that it's in a topic that will stop being used when the voting is over.

 

[Burkhard]

Candlemass
Coroner
Death
Fates Warning
Voivod

 

[The Ozzman]

I don't see how this discussion was harmful or off-topic, especially considering that it's in a topic that will stop being used when the voting is over.

Part of the discussion was reported. That's why. I figure if it stops, I won't get that in my messages.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Sure, help yourself. I remember you had some good ideas for the thread. You can always pass it along to someone else if you need to also.

I have an Excel spreadsheet with the previous results. If you'd like to PM me an email or something, I can send it to you.

Thanks. I'll shoot you my thoughts in PM, this thread is crowded enough as is.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

HoF is a popularity contest. If they get enough votes they get in, simple as that. I'm just expressing my perspective, which seems to threaten a lot of herd metal fans.

If I thought Venom were crap, I'd say so. I don't really care what the popular consensus is on the music. Sometimes my opinion overlaps with it, sometimes it doesn't. I assume Omni and others feel the same way. We're adults, we have our own tastes. We're anything but a herd, but whatever. Your characterization of the game as a whole is correct though, it's something of a populist pageant, that's what you get when you handle anything with democracy like this; mob rule.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

Norsecore is actually a term ascribed to a specific musical style of black metal. Marduk is basically the flagship norsecore band. It's a type of blasty and aggressive black metal popular among Scandinavian bands.

This is entirely correct, but I've seen it used the way I do too. As a derision of the pseudo-edgy, scene-queen jackoffs who let their pseudo-edginess supersede their musical vision and its quality.

 

[CiG]

Norsecore is a terminal illness afflicting a lot of black metal. It's essentially prioritzing the posturing of an image and putting it ahead of everything, music and all, to the point where the music suffers qualitatively. A lot of it is that pseudo-Satanism stuff, the kind that pretentious hacks like Gaahl espouse perpetually without having any real substantive and genuine commitment. So, perhaps Darkthrone isn't quite Norsecore, as they've never fallen into that hellish little vacuum. They've certainly had an issue with posturing their image into retro metal though (and away from black metal), to the point where some, including myself, would argue that their music is worse off for it.

I'm convinced you're an idiot at this point. "Norsecore" sounds like some lame in-group bullshit term, don't care about it, not a genuine criticism against Darkthrone.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I'm using it to describe a prioritization of how the band is posturing itself over their musicality. To the degree where the music is subpar as a result. I don't give a damn about in group or out group, it's just something I feel some black metal bands have fallen into. Like I said, it's probably not really applicable to Darkthrone in an exact sense seeing as they never did the obsessive "LOOK AT ME, I LOVE SATAN, AM I COOL NOW?" garbage. I think they've fallen into posturing themselves as retro metal image wise while not doing a good job of creating good retro metal. At least in contrast with the bands already performing retro metal.

 

[CiG]

Retro metal is a kind of metal that almost completely recreates an older sound, Darkthrone take old influences and make them their own, they have their own original sound even now. Show me ONE band that sounds like Darkthrone and maybe what you're saying will make some sense, until you do that you're just dribbling bullshit.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I know what retro metal is. That's where I disagree. The old influences they take on like Manowar, King Diamond, Savage, Nausea, etc. come off as poor, hollow quotations of good music the way they play it. Especially with the fact that Fenriz genuinely can't sing. The man literally doesn't have an iota of vocal ability. It adds nothing to the preexistent massive retro metal scene that's already kicking ass and has been kicking ass for a while now. They don't add anything to the equation. What they are doing is essentially a colossal redundancy. Bullet, Enforcer, and all the other great retro metal bands have this soundscape covered and mastered.

 

[CiG]

Name a band they sound like name a band they sound like name a band they sound like etc etc etc.

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]

I just explained my point to you. The point is, there are already bands covering the soundscapes Darkthrone is trying to cover, and they're already doing much better at it. The point is that Darkthrone are superfluous to retro metal. They simply quote their favorite influences half-assedly and crank out another record. It's not a matter of "Darkthrone sounds identical to these retro metal bands", it's that they're covering similar ground influence wise, and doing an infinitely shittier, infinitely more uninspired job.

 

[CiG]

 

[H.P. Lovecraft]