What do you see as a 'disgrace' to metal music? Why?

[Omni]

don't u fuck with ildjarn? obviously there are intangibles associated. music is entirely abstract and often times we don't apply the same standards to different artists

Yes, that is why I said this exact thing.

Having solid fundamentals as a band is the key to greatness for me in most types of metal.

I consider Ildjarn metal myself, but it's definitely an outlier since it's basically just dungeon hardcore punk noise.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

gotcha. these kinds of convos are pointless tbh. not to beat a dead horse, but no attempt at making some type of qualitative framework is going to ever work.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Yes, only those without the ability to appreciate high art (read: black metal with keyboards) would think that songwriting and ability to compliment one another musically are important.

I just found it funny that you said that musicians playing well together results in good music and, even better, good songwriting results in good songs. You said it like it was some grand insight everyone on this board didn’t realize. I would have loved to see your face when you were struck with this epiphany

 

[Omni]

I just found it funny that you said that musicians playing well together results in good music and, even better, good songwriting results in good songs. You said it like it was some grand insight everyone on this board didn’t realize. I would have loved to see your face when you were struck with this epiphany

You're more clueless than I ever imagined if you think that I was trying to make an insightful declaration that nobody else had ever thought of before. I was stating my personal opinion on what I enjoy most about bands. I wasn't saying that anyone else who feels otherwise is wrong or that I was making revelatory statement. There is nothing about my post that even implies that I felt that way.

You are the poster child for the exact behavior that you're describing since you claim other people have low metal IQ, can't understand high art and a variety of other vacuous claims that you obviously believe are true when sharing your opinions here. You even posting this about literally anyone else aside from yourself is the very definition of hypocrisy.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

You're more clueless than I ever imagined if you think that I was trying to make an insightful declaration that nobody else had ever thought of before. I was stating my personal opinion on what I enjoy most about bands. I wasn't saying that anyone else who feels otherwise is wrong or that I was making revelatory statement. There is nothing about my post that even implies that I felt that way.

You can try and spin it however you want, but it was a painfully obvious statement. I look forward to your next great gem of wisdom!

 

[arg]

Lefty metal is a disgrace to metal

 

[Omni]

@crimsonfloyd

Were you really so threatened by my very casual opinion that you had to project your own desire to be recognized as a voice of enlightenment and authority onto it?

I was pointing out that sometimes the fundamental elements of something are what make it worthwhile. It's not supposed to be a challenging opinion to have.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I’m not sure anyone is calling it high art but I do get the charm sometimes and occasionally buy some cassettes and whatnot. It’s at best for me when it’s a mixture of dark ambient, folk, or synth with the black metal. Reminds me of some old black and white ghost story.

I can get down with that. What I find disgraceful is applaud of what's essentially impaled northern moonforest... Which is intentionally a joke. I'm convinced people are fucking with me when they rave about a band that sounds like that.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

@crimsonfloyd

Were you really so threatened by my very casual opinion that you had to project your own desire to be recognized as a voice of enlightenment and authority onto it?

I was pointing out that sometimes the fundamental elements of something are what make it worthwhile. It's not supposed to be a challenging opinion to have.

Thanks for explaining your super obvious point a second time. That really cleared things up. #PlebeiansExplainThings

 

[Omni]

Thanks for explaining your super obvious point a second time. That really cleared things up. #PlebeiansExplainThings

I like how your only remaining course of action is to post hashtags at the end of your posts because you got offended that I casually stated a simple opinion. It was so obvious that you wildly misread why I posted it and accused me of acting like you.

It's okay, sweetheart. I'm sure Josh from Velvet Cacoon was only kidding when he said his fans are morons. The dieselharp actually exists and he is a brilliant visionary.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

lol did anyone even buy the dieselharp mythos tho?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

It's okay, sweetheart.

You're starting to sound like me, and I don't know whether to be proud or offended.

edit: oh and what the fuck is a dieselharp?

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

A harp powered by a diesel engine fueled by a tank the size of a small fish aquarium filled with salt water from the sea with droplets of human blood

 

[HamburgerBoy]

To reduce metal to the concept of riffs is not only musically tonedeaf and illiterate, but makes no fucking sense. He's an ostentatious troglodyte.

I love riffs, I grew up obsessed with them, still am, my proudest moment from when I was 13 was learning how to play the patented Chuck Berry double stop riff. The thing is though, there's more to the backbone of metal than just riffs, it's the phrasing, it's the melody, the attitude. To completely dismiss something based on its supposed lack of riffs is noxious and imbecilic.

As someone that was shaped by UltraBoris if by anyone on the internet, this is kind of an exaggeration and also misses the point. He certainly loved plenty of melodic albums that weren't even particularly riff-heavy, but more than that, it is ultimately the riff that defines metal music more than anything. Heavy metal is essentially a form of hard rock that relies on a higher quantity and diversity of riffing styles, generally ones distinct from the majority of rock music pre-70s (and vast majority pre-60s). As heavy metal evolved, its lineage was defined primarily by more newly incorporated riffing styles. While there's no doubt that a person can write great riffs and still crap songs (see: a number of post-Rust in Peace Megadeth songs), it is almost impossible to write a great metal song without great riffs. A highly-arranged prog opus with a string section, classically-trained singers, with movements between several different key signatures, but yet just a bunch of syncopated chugs filling out the basic riffing units could have a lot going for yet still ends up merely with a heavier, down-tuned Genesis or ELP. I would love to hear what you consider to be a great metal album with mediocre-at-best riffs, black metal aside (which largely isn't actually metal for this very reason).

Can you explain what you mean by "the phrasing" btw? As I would understand the word in a musical context, it's an intrinsic part of what makes the riff.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

A harp powered by a diesel engine fueled by a tank the size of a small fish aquarium filled with salt water from the sea with droplets of human blood

sounds legit

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

yeah, this guy is fuckin' awesome.

 

[EternalMetal]

I would love to hear what you consider to be a great metal album with mediocre-at-best riffs, black metal aside (which largely isn't actually metal for this very reason).

Almost anything Devin Townsend tbh.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Almost anything Devin Townsend tbh.

Exactly the kind of music I was imagining. Obviously a talented dude and I've thawed on him a bit, but a lot of his music is basically heavy dental office pop, even when good.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I like how your only remaining course of action is to post hashtags at the end of your posts because you got offended that I casually stated a simple opinion. It was so obvious that you wildly misread why I posted it and accused me of acting like you.

Simple man makes simple comment and gets butthurt when someone points out it’s simple and then can't let it go

It's okay, sweetheart. I'm sure Josh from Velvet Cacoon was only kidding when he said his fans are morons. The dieselharp actually exists and he is a brilliant visionary.

Yes, I've read the letter you're alluding to. In fact, it was sent to a friend of mine at the time. I think it can be read in multiple ways. However, even if you read it as him simply shitting on his own music (a valid reading) it doesn't impact what the music accomplishes in the least. I would imagine the intellectually simple wouldn't be able to easily abstract a work of art from the persona of the artist that created it, but for me, that's not a cognitive challenge. So that incident didn't change my position on the record in the least.

 

[CiG]

Snake's vocals > this whole debate.