What do you see as a 'disgrace' to metal music? Why?

Omni said:
Sorry, I can't imagine myself making a serious counterargument against your claim that you have a superior intellect that allows you to recognize a joke album as a piece of meaningful art and that people who recognize that it was a joke album are less intelligent than you.
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Point went over your head. Shocker.
 
H.P. Lovecraft said:
Oh boy, a six year dissertation on the genesis and music theory of heavy metal, I needed this, because it's not like I was there or anything. I never argued riffs weren't a centerpiece, I just said it wasn't necessarily "king", as I felt there were other things that were just as important, i.e. attitude and phrasing. Phrasing is simply the placing of the notes, riff or no riff. The decision to wait half a beat to put the second A note after the first A note, that's phrasing.
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In metal I disagree, there is literally nothing as important as riffs. Especially if we limit things to 1970 through 1993. In modal jazz or ars nova, I will happily admit that riffs aren't important, but metal is based on riffs. Some sub-genres emphasize the importance of riffs more than others; in power, black, and sometimes death metal it's sometimes acceptable to play a lot of straight, unsyncopated rhythms, in trad and thrash it rarely is, but riffs are still the defining aspect.

But that's literally a matter of rhythm is it not? Aka a fundamental domain of the riff. Two notes in two different places = two different rhythms = two different phrasings = two different riffs.
 
HamburgerBoy said:
In metal I disagree, there is literally nothing as important as riffs. Especially if we limit things to 1970 through 1993. In modal jazz or ars nova, I will happily admit that riffs aren't important, but metal is based on riffs. Some sub-genres emphasize the importance of riffs more than others; in power, black, and sometimes death metal it's sometimes acceptable to play a lot of straight, unsyncopated rhythms, in trad and thrash it rarely is, but riffs are still the defining aspect.

But that's literally a matter of rhythm is it not? Aka a fundamental domain of the riff. Two notes in two different places = two different rhythms = two different phrasings = two different riffs.
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Metal is based on riffs. It's also based on other things though, for instance, it's own unique phylum of phrasing. Just because rhythm is a riff's fundamental domain, does not mean phrasing is exclusively or even mostly correlated to riffs. There's phrasing in everything from Ornette Coleman to AC/DC. Phrasing in a vocal context for instance, would be a choice by Luciano Pavarotti to accentuate the C of a particular part of a vocal melisma in the flow or rhythm of an operatic vocal solo. Phrasing is note placement in essence. It's a huge part of what makes riffs riffs, but riffs are not a huge part of what makes phrasing phrasing.
 
I didn't say that phrasing is the same thing as riffs, I'm saying that in a metal context, if you are discussing the phrasing of the rhythm guitar, you are discussing riffs. It'd be like describing a painting and saying "It's not just about the colors, it's about the palette". They're inextricable, even though they're not to the exclusion of others. But it looks like that's not what you meant.

Since you actually mean all phrasing including that of vocal phrasing, I then disagree that it's as important. Vocal phrasing is relatively simplistic and unvaried compared to that of riffs in a metal context; someone like Tom Araya would probably be on the more complex/focused side of vocal phrasing in metal, and it goes without saying that the near-entirety of hip-hop goes well beyond him. You could have Slayer with merely Chuck Billy's vocal phrasing and it would still be Slayer.
 
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Having tinny sounding drums is disgraceful imo (lookin at you, Pantera)

Fenriz said it best that bands should have thunderous sounding drums.

However, I give this a pass to some Industrial Metal bands simply because of how some drum machines sound. Granted, the way you can EQ and mix those drums /might/ be able to null that.
 
It depends on the sample used. A snare that is programmed in already tinny/reverbed can't be fixed no matter how you EQ it.
 
The poppy nature of Devin Townsend's music is why so much of it is wonderful. A lot of his "more metal" albums are just not up to the level of albums like Terria and Ocean Machine.
 
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The Ozzman said:
His newest album got me interested in him again although I thought his shit with SYL was lame. It was like Fear Factory light.
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I agree but also disagree with the SYL thing. Yeah its very Fear Factory based but I feel SYL is a lot more demanding. Fear Factory seems formulaic where Devy's bipolar disorder keeps the music quite literally fucking bonkers.
 
The Butt said:
It depends on the sample used. A snare that is programmed in already tinny/reverbed can't be fixed no matter how you EQ it.
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It really does depend on the Drum Machine. I can dig it, but all these slam bands or deathcore bands with drum triggering and 808 bass drops are fucking ridiculous. It sounds awful.

And bands that mix the kick and snare where it sounds like a machine gun is annoying too.
 
I find most "industrial metal" to have nothing to do with industrial, tbh. I mean godflesh is an exception...drum machine does not equal industrial.
 
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Of course, there are more aspects to it besides drum machines. But I mean a lot of them had to use what they had, which drum machines were definitely integrated with the cold and machine like sounds.

Hell thats pretty much why Broderick used it. He couldn't find a drummer and said fuck it, he knew what he wanted.
 
Terasophe said:
Of course, there are more aspects to it besides drum machines. But I mean a lot of them had to use what they had, which drum machines were definitely integrated with the cold and machine like sounds.

Hell thats pretty much why Broderick used it. He couldn't find a drummer and said fuck it, he knew what he wanted.
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Yeah, I figured as much regarding what you meant. I also laugh when I see "industrial black metal" being labeled as such because it's got a drum machine programmed to blastbeat and honestly a lot of those bands have more a cyberpunk vibe than anything close to industrial.

However, Godflesh does have a lot to do with industrial music on a number of levels.
 
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