wtf...Extol is christian death metal?!

[Kenneth R.]

Yeah but my point was, Christians are just as good at writing fiction as anyone else. Its nice to write about your belief's, but I can't see any reason why a Christian Death Metal band couldn't write a Cannibal Corpse style gory song. Cannibal Corpse aren't murderers (as far as I know) they just write fiction that is gory. So in theory a CDM band could do the same right? Without incorporating their beliefs into it in an obvious way.

take Tolkien for example. Christian, and as far as i'm concerned, the end of Two Towers was a pretty bleak book (or movie for those of you). not overtly obvious, but his thoughts are definitely in the theme. Ring = temptation for example.

Still, i don't mind bands who do let their beliefs show. I do mind when it's obvious, and yet they deny it to avoid criticizm. "Do not deny your faith" is an important thing, for anyone really. why lie to yourself and others?

 

[musicnerd]

To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised by the lack of meaness on this thread. In the past anytime religion is mentioned, it got a little sticky. I'm christian (Catholic to be exact). Now I'm just speaking for myself here (not for other christians). I choose not to listen to music that explicitly glorifies satan or blasphemes God. That being said, I consider rap/hip-hop far more evil than some black/death metal bands simply because many "artists" in this genre glorify violence, disrespect against women and not only that, they seem to believe in what they're rapping about. And as has been discussed hear, many "satanic" metal bands really aren't "satanic", its just a PR gimmick. Opeth, however, seems to be more concerned with the music than any message. When GR was released, there was some questions as to whether it was a "satanic" album or not or if Opeth themselves are "satanic". I don't believe Opeth are satanic, and just because GR is a story about the devil doesn't make it satanic. The "moral" seems that if you make a deal with the devil, you will loose.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I swear this is my last post here, because I agree with EveOfDarkness on this one, but I do hope that at least some will think this through ... when you actually know history and mythologies and the bible and are a little bit sceptic at least, then you soon see how many flaws there are in the way christians think about it ....

hmm, i disagree. from my point of view, a lot of people misunderstand it, overanalyze it, and do their very best to find discrepancies in the logic of it. if that was really your goal, then all you'd have to do is say whoa, wait a minute. miracles defy physics, so this is all bogus... but then, is it really? that's the question. personally i don't see many if any flaws in the way i think about it, i see it as a historical account of things that happened as a message to us now. i see it as sometimes literal and sometimes allegorical. why is it that the typical nonchristian reaction is as if we are blinded to some truth? i think it is our duty to seek truth, to question, and to understand. i don't take anything at face value, and i am no blind follower. so please, don't adopt that condescending tone of "if you only look you'd see how wrong you are." i could point out the many flaws in satanism, the flaws in paganism, or islam, but what's the point? people find their own way, and people should seek out truth and follow what they truly believe. you can tell me all day that no man can walk on water, i'd just smile and agree.

 

[vampyrouss]

take Tolkien for example. Christian, and as far as i'm concerned, the end of Two Towers was a pretty bleak book (or movie for those of you). not overtly obvious, but his thoughts are definitely in the theme. Ring = temptation for example.

Still, i don't mind bands who do let their beliefs show. I do mind when it's obvious, and yet they deny it to avoid criticizm. "Do not deny your faith" is an important thing, for anyone really. why lie to yourself and others?

Yup obviously another good example.

 

[Goober]

Its funny now that i look back. one of my first threads here was titled "Are opeth satanists?" And that started a HUGE riot. It was one of the biggest threads because everyone was arguing about religion and how christianity is false n stuff, and it just got out of hand. And im glad that some people are getting back to the main topic, but come on guys....we really cant try to "prove points" and what not, cuz it will just go back to the same chaotic arguements as before.

 

[vampyrouss]

This be the thread, I was so bored I searched through lots of pages to find it. Enjoy people who recently were discussing this in the interview thingy thread.

 

[neuroticandroid]

I disagree. I wanna know what i am listening to. I wanna know what the guys behind the music a little bit.

Thes is a diffrence between Christian Black metal and black metal.
The lyrcis are diffrent. Maybe not very much but very often they reflect diffrent issues.

I don`t have anything against anyone whatever they may sing about but i sure want to know what they sing about and what the guys behind the music stands for.

By the way, Crimson moonlight is probably more brutal then many so called satanic bands.

yeah, CM is quite brutal! slechtvalk, another christian band, reminds me alot of dimmu borgir, for those who may get curious. and admittedly, extol was alot heavier in their earlier releases. there is a side project called lengsel of a couple guys from extol, that is in the style of black metal. (is that a better way to say it for any anti-christian black metal fans out there?)

 

[Black Session]

noooooooooooooooooooo not again ...

anyway: slechtvalk sounds like dimmu borgir you say?????? listen again I would say ... (are you from the Netherlands perhaps? you know slechtvalk ... )

 

[polarity3]

terrible thread

i wont not listen to a metal band just because theyre christian but the fact is that most if not all christian metal bands are going to suck because christianity and metal are incompatible

 

[vampyrouss]

btw, @vampyrouss: hmm, lyrics, music and artwork are so closely linked? something I said many times in the discussion about christian extreme metal, to point out that you can not ignore the lyrics of satanic bands since they are very much reflected in the music and artwork too ... so actually you have to agree with me then that it is kind of hypocrite for convinced christians to listen to anti-christian music ... (since you want to start this topic up again .. you can answer in the right thread if you'd like to)

Yeah, I'll answer that question here, Black Session!

I don't really see it as being a hypocrite, I could sit and watch Songs Of Praise witch is a program full of hymns and christian imagry without being a Christian. Would that make me a hypocrite? I might just like the camera angles, or the presenter or the places they visit or something.

Same with the music, they might just like the guitars, or drums or something.
I don't know man, maybe it is slightly weird for a Christian to listen to Satanic music, but certainly its their choice. And does that mean if a Christian watches say The Witches, or reads the book they are being a hypocrite? You know, music is just entertainment, some bands such as Opeth sing about the occult (on GR) but we know they are athiests, so Opeth should be hypocrites for listening to something they don't believe in, and so should I?

hehe, its always such a great subject to discuss!!

 

[Black Session]

well, I also watch some of those programs (on Dutch television, wich is filled with stuff like that :s ... really intriging how christianity is that strong in a country that is also the exact opposite of it) but in a sociologic sort of way ..
I listen to classical music that is christian, but I always keep wondering what amazing music there could have been if someone like Bach wouldn't always compose something for God ....

and no, one is not hypocrite to listen to, or read something that he/she doesn't believe in (e.g. exotic mythology that you can find intriging and beautiful), but when it literally attacks in every possible way (lyrically, musically, through artwork, through ideas, through ...) what he/she believes in, and he/she considers that as a positive thing in some way or another, then I consider it hypocrite yes.
for example music with explicit neo-nazi messages is something I can not listen to ... I would be a hypocrite if I would support that music.
and yes, I can admit that someone who has ideas that I can not support, can create something I like (for example Bach or Speer, the architect of Hitler ... BUT almost always these are people that couldn't help it, it's part of the way they grew up, the ghost of their time ... with BM it is literally intended to opose others).
but imagine you take church music, that's intended to sound like music for Jesus or God or whatever, and someone puts satanic lyrics on them ... this would be outrageous for many of those who think it's okay to put religious lyrics on explicitly anti-religious music that even is intended to SOUND like anti-religious, and especially anti-christian (it's part of a war against christianity, wich BM believes is started by christianity ages ago).

art has always been a way to express your own ideas and emotions ... and when you take this sort of personal stuff, and twist it around to make it express your own ideas and emotions wich are the exact thing against wich this art has been directed, than this shows little respect for that artform ...
and so, when christians use anti-christian art, than this is disrespectful, wich it has always been. so much beautiful art that christianity simply stole and thaught people that it was something it's not, and saying that the original ideas behind it, are evil and forbidden and something to look down upon too.

voila, I hope I once again made my point ... it's very difficult to express how you feel or think about something when it is so very different from what the other feels or thinks. (wich is also why so many people can't relate to other cultures, they are to different to fit in the thinking-schemes of their mind).

p.s.: I want to stress that I am talking about Black and Death Metal here .... of course there are other sorts of metal wich were not created against christianity ... and I also don't consider Opeth to be anti-christian btw, although in their younger years I think they were also a bit passionate about it

 

[vampyrouss]

I see your point, but yeah. I guess it depends on the person, not their religion. Looser Christians who believe in God but not the bible and their rules, just that there is something that made them that they respect could probably listen to it or something, but stricter Christians enjoying extremely satanic music would kind of make them sound like hypocrites!

I dunno, I can see both sides of the arguement I guess

 

[Kenneth R.]

terrible thread

i wont not listen to a metal band just because theyre christian but the fact is that most if not all christian metal bands are going to suck because christianity and metal are incompatible

metal and girls are incompatible

come now, let's not be stereotypical and avoid an obvious falsehood

PS: stressing also again- not all death/black metal is satanic, nor does it have to be.

 

[EveOfDarkness]

I think that as long as the music you listen to does not shake your faith, it is ok. I talk being a christian, i admittingly listen to some satanic bands like Emperor, a little bit of Dimmu, Old Man's Child and the like. But I know personally, I listen to those bands along side the other bands I listen to for musical inspiration that str8 up christian metal/music cant give me. For me, It does not shake my faith because I play my own form of christian metal, I use these bands as influences musically on what I want to create. If anything, knowing these bands are satanic and hate my beliefs makes me have pity on them and allows my faith to grow. But for other christians, like for example my brother, who is a new born, on-fire christian for God, they dont want ne thing to do with 'the dark side' because they dont want a chance of them being consumed by it. So its not for everybody. Not all christians can listen to satanic music and be fine, nor should they unless, like i said, they are spritually able to or have a reason to. I only listen to it, as I said, for musical inspiration. I do liek the music but obviously hate the lyrics, so i just ignore them the best I can. Also, it helps that I know a lot of those bands that claim they are satanic sing about it for the shock value alone. It actually makes me laugh when I hear super satanic lyrics like those I find in a Morbid Angel song, I gess the same way a non-believers would laugh at Extol's up front Christian message.

 

[CF87]

Extol suck. There is no such thing as christian death metal either.

 

[vampyrouss]

No, you mean there is no such thing as Vampires and Zombies, easily done!

 

[EveOfDarkness]

Extol suck. There is no such thing as christian death metal either.

sorry to inform you but, Extol do indeed rule

 

[vampyrouss]

And there is obviously such a thing as Christian Death Metal.

I despise drugs and alchahol, but that doesn't mean they aren't real. Just because you don't like the idea of something doesn't make it unreal.
I still haven't actually heard the band, so I won't comment on whether they suck or not!

 

[Black Session]

I'm in doubt to post something again ... it's hard for me to shut up about it, since I'm so passionate about these sort of topics.
but it strikes me to see reaffirmed on this forum that most convinced christians, actually using words like "my saviour", "it strenghtens my faith" and stuff like that (wich to me sound so incredibly unrealistic, but that is because I grew up here where religion has become a marginal thing in society), that they are almost all from the USA ...
and I wonder .... I often hear the question why so many don't believe in god anymore or something like that .... but on the same time, people wondering this don't realize that if they grew up in another place (like where I live) the chance for them being so religious are extremely small ...
this is one of my biggest questions in life (and thus impossible to be given a real answer), why so many intelligent people, with access to all sorts of information, never seem to see that most people on the planet don't share those beliefs and it's not possible to argue wich belief is right or wrong ... but it's because the religious environment in the USA is so incredibly strong and alloverwhelming that people seem to think that most people DO belief it, wich is almost a sort of proof that there is a god, but only a few people deny it ...
(and I am sorry to say: but there is A LOT of religious brainwashing going on in the USA ... you most likely wouldn't even believe, or at least be far less enthousiastic about it, when you grew up elsewhere).

oh well, please don't answer on this it's simply a remark I couldn't stop from making, it's my own way of thinking, wich like I said can't be answered (especially not by people from the USA who are right in the middle of it), and wich shouldn't be dealt with on this forum. I simply felt the urge to share this with the few who might be interested.
you must realize, in the same way that you feel pity for those who don't believe (and therefore won't go to heaven although they lead a good life, and actually can lead a fulfilling life also withouth the need for a god), I feel pity for you who need that sort of thing so badly. because looking at beautiful things (the universe, your girlfriend, your child or whatever) or listening to amazing music, or seeing great art ... can be so much more overwhelming and intriguing and amazingly beautiful when you realize that there isn't a god responsible for it ... even evolution-theory is so amazingly beautiful, and so much more gorgeous without a god. believing in a god for me, is the easy way out, and degrading everything humanity has achieved (especially art) and degrading the complexity and beauty of the universe ...
to belief in a god is also the easy way out to deal with the uglyness or the "evil" (if you can call it that) ... because otherwise you need other explanations to deal with it, and you can learn how beautifully complex humans and nature is, when you eliminate the idea of a god ...

oh well I let myself go on this one ... and I apologize to the moderator for this. although being off topic, it still is relevant in this discussion, since I seem to represent the only convinced counter-weight against most here who are christians (there need to be more europeans active on this board!!!).
thank you for you attention to put it stupidly

back on topic ... when is the drummer from extol going to form his own band? he is great!

 

[vampyrouss]

I can agree with you on most of that actually man!
The only thing that annoys me in religion is the arrogance of any of us, who believe firmly in what we believe. I mean, if we take a million little balls, all different colours and mix them up and get someone to pick one, how can that person be so sure that he is going to pick his own ball out? There are more than a million possibilities on everything, in fact its infinite isn't it?

So how can anyone have that much faith in anything?

I can respect people for saying "I think..." but I can't respect anyone who says "This is right, FACT" when obviously nobody knows what is right. Its nice that people can convince themselves that there is or isn't something like a god or whatever, but I would rather just wait and see and lead my life the way I choose without living in fear of being right or wrong. If we were meant to know this stuff we'd be born with that knowledge, just like we are born with brains because we are supposed to think.

Anyway, yeah... Christian Death Metal... uh... that was something to do with this topic right? At some point?