"you just don't understand"

[VampyrRose]

you've heard a couple songs that somebody told you were "teh methulkore!", you didn't like them, so anytime you hear another band that is being described as "metalcore", you are 99% certain not to like them because you've convinced yourself already that you don't like "that kind of music". in all reality, you wouldn't even give them a fair listen, probably turning off the song as soon as you hear that it has similar production values or guitar chords or vocal styles to some other metalcore band that you heard once and didn't like.

ummm... rambling...

oh yeah, you're narrow minded, whether your narrow little mind can recognize it or not.

I can definitely understand what you're saying but once you've heard a ton of metalcore bands, you don't have to be an expert to assume that you won't like much of anything else the genre has to offer. I don't listen to metalcore either, its just not the style of music that I prefer to listen to, and not once have I liked a single metalcore band that I have heard. I don't think one has to listen to every single rap/hiphop group to decide that he/she dislikes the genre.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I can definitely understand what you're saying but once you've heard a ton of metalcore bands, you don't have to be an expert to assume that you won't like much of anything else the genre has to offer. I don't listen to metalcore either, its just not the style of music that I prefer to listen to, and not once have I liked a single metalcore band that I have heard. I don't think one has to listen to every single rap/hiphop group to decide that he/she dislikes the genre.

 

[Teh Grimace]

my point is that saying you dislike an entire genre is an ignorant and narrow minded statement. there are good bands playing every style of music in existance. there's good rap. there's good country. there's good pop. there's also a lot of bad examples of them, so you could say "i haven't heard any country acts that i like" but admit that there may be good country that you just haven't heard yet. that's fine. it's saying "country sucks, i fucking hate country, it's gay and it's all the same and it sucks" that is narrow minded.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

my point is that saying you dislike an entire genre is an ignorant and narrow minded statement. there are good bands playing every style of music in existance. there's good rap. there's good country. there's good pop. there's also a lot of bad examples of them, so you could say "i haven't heard any country acts that i like" but admit that there may be good country that you just haven't heard yet. that's fine. it's saying "country sucks, i fucking hate country, it's gay and it's all the same and it sucks" that is narrow minded.

OK... I'll grant that. But I have yet to hear any good metalcore even the album which you proclaimed was so great... sounded pretty bad to me. And if that was the BEST of the genre well...

 

[Teh Grimace]

there's also the possibility that you just have no taste and can't appreciate great music. that's also an option.

 

[VampyrRose]

my point is that saying you dislike an entire genre is an ignorant and narrow minded statement. there are good bands playing every style of music in existance. there's good rap. there's good country. there's good pop. there's also a lot of bad examples of them, so you could say "i haven't heard any country acts that i like" but admit that there may be good country that you just haven't heard yet. that's fine. it's saying "country sucks, i fucking hate country, it's gay and it's all the same and it sucks" that is narrow minded.

I agree with the principle in which you are speaking of but I can honestly say I will never like a country or rap group. I don't think that makes me ignorant, its just the honest truth. Music is subjective to peoples' tastes so I don't necessarily think its narrowminded. It depends on how the person presents him/herself. To every band there are people who like and dislike them - and it doesn't make the person narrowminded if they can't accept the band.

For example, I will never listen to Eminen regardless of how many people admire him and say there's more to his music that what I can hear. It doesn't then make me ignorant for "missing" this. However, I can agree with your point of view, but there is two sides to this argument.

 

[Demiurge]

i hear this all the time, usually with bands that have some stupid "intellectual" fanebase like Tool or especially Meshuggah. I'll say, "I don't think Meshuggah are that good" and someone will say "you just dont understand the music."

Do you think this a valid argument to defend a band with?

That is not a valid argument form, so no.

 

[Teh Grimace]

you should like every style of music. i can honestly say there is no style i cannot appreciate in any way. i don't much care for tejano, but that's more a result of me not speaking spanish and not knowing anyone who listens to and could explain it to me. and i'm sure there's probably a really badass tejano band out there that i would love if i ever came across them.

it's not about "genres".

there are good bands and there are bad bands.

you should like all of the good bands, and none of the bad ones.

if your taste does not match up with whatever style one of these good bands happens to be playing, then there's something wrong with your taste and you need to work to expand your understanding of music.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

there's also the possibility that you just have no taste and can't appreciate great music. that's also an option.

Wrong. Refer to post #99.

 

[Teh Grimace]

wooptie. any schmuck with $16 can get a miles davis album and then walk around talking about how hip he is 'cause he owns a miles davis album. doesn't mean you know shit about miles or anything else.

 

[Demiurge]

wooptie. any schmuck with $16 can get a miles davis album and then walk around talking about how hip he is 'cause he owns a miles davis album. doesn't mean you know shit about miles or anything else.

I know that Miles Davis was a negro. Does this knowledge make me hip?

 

[Teh Grimace]

no, it makes you sighted.

 

[VampyrRose]

you should like every style of music. i can honestly say there is no style i cannot appreciate in any way. i don't much care for tejano, but that's more a result of me not speaking spanish and not knowing anyone who listens to and could explain it to me. and i'm sure there's probably a really badass tejano band out there that i would love if i ever came across them.

it's not about "genres".

there are good bands and there are bad bands.

you should like all of the good bands, and none of the bad ones.

if your taste does not match up with whatever style one of these good bands happens to be playing, then there's something wrong with your taste and you need to work to expand your understanding of music.

Sorry, but thats like saying everyone should enjoy every movie that has been made. Its nice to say hypothetically, and suggest that everyone could potentially like it, but in reality every has their own taste and opinion and that, ultimately decides what people like and dislike.

I find it very ironic that you should said "there are good bands and there are bad bands/you should like all of the good bands, and none of the bad ones." How does one define a "good" band and a "bad" one? That contradicts your whole argument because therefore you are making a judgement based on your taste and own opinion. Every band has a fanbase regardless of how good or bad they may be.

 

[death waker]

Tool are not that bad, but you do need a valid reason for liking or not liking.

Saying that you don't understand the music is a shit reason.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

wooptie. any schmuck with $16 can get a miles davis album and then walk around talking about how hip he is 'cause he owns a miles davis album. doesn't mean you know shit about miles or anything else.

Teh Grimcore,
Actually I got most of them quite a bit cheaper. And it does mean I know shit about Miles and anything else. I'm sure I know quite a bit more about music than you do, maybe not 'metalcore' but theory & comp. Probably more about Miles as well. So what makes you an expert on Miles? Were you his student? Or like the rest of us did you buy his albums and listen to them and learn about his music that way?

 

[Teh Grimace]

Sorry, but thats like saying everyone should enjoy every movie that has been made.

no, it's like saying everyone should enjoy good films of every style, from dramatic, to comedy, science fiction, etc. etc.

do you think i'm saying that you should enjoy every band in existance?

if so, you completely missed the mark here.

I find it very ironic

you don't know what ironic means.

How does one define a "good" band and a "bad" one?

well, it definately has nothing to do with what genre they belong to. that much i'm sure of. if you would be more inclined to think a band was "bad" just because of the style they choose to play, you are narrow minded.

 

[Teh Grimace]

And it does mean I know shit about Miles and anything else.

no it doesn't. i know more pretentious hipsters who think they "get" jazz when they really just like saying that they do cause it makes them feel cool, than people who actually do get it.

I'm sure I know quite a bit more about music than you do, maybe not 'metalcore' but theory & comp.

theory heads are homosexual. knowing theory just makes you more capable of talking out of your ass about things you really don't understand.

not that i'm not quite well versed in theory. i've taken formal lessons in guitar, bass, and piano for about a decade now, and i've studied drums and percussion from all the drummers and percussionists i've known and played with over that time.

but i don't really think it matters much in the long run. so i don't even mention it when trying to prove my credentials as someone who knows music.

 

[Mr_Haze]

you should like every style of music. i can honestly say there is no style i cannot appreciate in any way.

Sorry, but thats like saying everyone should enjoy every movie that has been made.

No that's like saying you should enjoy every genre of movie not movie in particular.

 

[VampyrRose]

no, it's like saying everyone should enjoy good films of every style, from dramatic, to comedy, science fiction, etc. etc.

do you think i'm saying that you should enjoy every band in existance?

if so, you completely missed the mark here.



you don't know what ironic means.



well, it definately has nothing to do with what genre they belong to. that much i'm sure of. if you would be more inclined to think a band was "bad" just because of the style they choose to play, you are narrow minded.

Good/bad is a result of opinion, its not pre-determined by any means. Its not much different from "good" and "evil" - there are two arguments that can be made to support either side. As I said earlier you don't have to hear every single rap or country group to know you generally dislike the entire genre. Most genres follow un-written "rules" in which the style is composed of, and that makes a genre. And if some of those elements don't appeal to you it doesn't make you ignorant for disliking them. (You don't have to eat shit twice before you can say you dislike it - and it doesnt make you ignorant for making the assumption.)

I know exactly what you are talking about but I'm simply using examples. For example I don't care for bands like Iron Maiden but I don't necessarily think they're a bad band - but would I say they're good? If nobody liked them, would they still be considered "good"? I agree, it shouldn't be the genre that makes a band "bad" but keep in my mind not everyone holds the same opinion/taste which is why I wouldn't expect anyone to like every band in existence. To some people, you would be considered ignorant for disliking a single band (which was the point I was trying to make). .....And it was ironic because you contradicted your argument instead of supporting it with what you later said.

 

[Teh Grimace]

i just started to write out a 3 page essay comparing music to cheese, but i decided against finishing/posting it.

i'll simply state that i do not think "good" and "bad" are a matter of personal taste and opinion, i think they are universal measurements of the overall quality of art. all art is either "good" or "bad". it is the ignorant and narrow minded who get the two confused, thinking "bad" art to be "good" and the reverse.