Are you christian and like Black Metal?

[anonymousnick2001]

That's true.

 

[edwardgein]

I'm an agnostic but i have my Christian beliefs and I listen to Black, Death, Grind, and whatnot. I don't let it bother me but what does bother me are those that follow Black Metal to the "T". I still don't understand how some can make it a priority to lead their lives according to the lyrics in some black metal song. My belief is "time and place for everything".

 

[anonymousnick2001]

It might be hard for you to believe, but some people actually don't have a life.

 

[Dusk]

Dusk, nice job of that 2nd paragraph. well said. But Idon't get the first half... are you saying that the first one is true or that Christians can listen to any music they want is true?

well. I’m stupid, so it wasn't as clear here as it was in my head but I tried to simplify the two points of view that seem prevalent.

a) Christians can not listen to black metal

- What is the argument for this point of view?

If you listen to a genre of music that has lyrics that are not in alignment with your beliefs you are unable to listen to said genre of music.

If this is true, no one but Satanists are allowed to listen to black metal.

Is everyone that has said Christians can't listen to black metal a Satanist? If not do you listen to black metal...

I think that the arguements of christianity vs satanism are covered in depth elsewhere. Religious debates are kind of pointless in my opinion.

I guess this doesn't really address the point anyway. so yeah.

Basically I guess I was just trying to say those who are saying that Christians can't listen to black metal are dumb.

If you had to listen to music that had lyrics you agreed with I think the record companies would be ALOT more pissed of at that notion than mp3's. Only gangsta's would listen to rap/hip hop, only serial killers would listen to death metal, only Satanists would listen to black metal, only people that slay dragons and enjoy wearing loin cloths would listen to power metal and only insecure 15 year old fun loving 'punks' that hate their parents and can't get a date would listen to blink 182....oh

b) You can listen to what ever you want to listen to.

- mmm

By putting them up there together I was attempting to hi-light the stupidity of the first argument. That is what I was TRYING to get at with the first paragraph.

It still makes no sense i know .... It did in my head damnit!!!!!!!!!

HEY YOU ASKED REMEMBER!

 

[NocturnalSun]

nah it makes sense to me now. The people who say "Christians are only allowed to listen to Christian music" are assholes. You're exactly right in the examples.

Anyone CAN listen to whatever they want. Like, I like the instruments and the feel of traditional Celtic music, yet I'm not of Celtic background, so I'm not allowed to listen to it. what a crock of shit haha

good points, Dusk.

 

[clangorous]

Even after posting this in the Satanism and Metal thread, you still feel the need to take another whack at the Christians... I've told you and stressed more than enough already most of the stuff I'm about to tell you. First off, how do you KNOW that Hinduism is older? and second, didn't you take notice of when I said that NOT EVEN 2% of true priests FORCE their ideas on people. to Stick up for one's religion is one thing and forcing it on somebody is completely different. You need to tell the difference between the two. ANd also realize that if an unordained person is forcing it on you, then it is not an act of the CHURCH but of the PERSON. The CHURCH does not teach such things..

.

Hey Nocturnal Sun , you are getting too personal , Did i mention anywhere in that post only against Christianity, i mentioned almost all religions, and i was talking about Hinduism since epicous had asked. and abt Hinduism being older
there are Archaeological proofs of Hindus existence in BC's (A.D calendar system was considered after the birth of christ). i hope u know what BC is (Before Christ), and Islam came in after Christianity as u might be knowing,
As far as Buddhism, if u know anything abt the History of Buddha, he was born in India to a Hindu family, These are enough proofs to say Hinduism is older to those Religions. if u really wanna know more , why don u visit our Country once. Just because i am in India, Don think that i don know anything of the outside world , its ppl like u who don make an effort to learn abt other Countries and Religion ,just keep supporting ur faith blindly. Once again i am not against Christianity alone ,i am against all organised religion.

 

[clangorous]

You say this as if it were fact also. Of course priests know this form of music exists. Probably not all of them know, but the general population of priests are not out of touch with reality. And i SERIOUSLY doubt that they 'all believe that music is a form of divine language and a mode of getting closer to God'. That is completely ignorant. You're making priests out to be uninformed idiots with no personal interests in their music tastes, when that definitely isn't true. Where do you draw your information from? the vast majority of priests have plenty of outside-of-church music that they like that doesn't express 'divine language' or bring them 'closer to God.'

Here again !!!, Do u think Priests are there only in Christianity ?, I was talking about the Priests in Hinduism, seems like u know about Hinduism better than me , Dude as u might be knowing ,in India English is not the First Language, not all ppl listen to English Music , especially not the Priests , they listen to Devotional Songs in their Local Language. Its only the younger generation who listen to English Music and amongst them only few listen to Metal, Most of them are in to Britney Spears, Techno and shit like that, Its only in few cities Metal is famous (like mine , I am from Bangalore where there are lot of Metal Heads). About Music being a Language to get closer to God , that is what Theists and Priests believe , There is a Goddess called Saraswathi who is the Goddess of Music. In the whole Post i was talkin abt HINDU Priests !!! . So u are taking everything related only to Christianity. Thats why i guess ppl are cornering you . Grow up Kid , Think beyond what u believe. :hotjump:

 

[clangorous]

uhh... dude. last time i checked, atheism means they don't believe in a 'God', so how can someone be Atheist and Hindu at the same time?

.

About this !!!, What i meant was ppl who are supposed to be Hindus. I am sure u know that everyone will not be Atheists by birth, they will surely have their roots in one of the so called Religions, In those so called Religions
i have seen ppl who are supposed to be Hindus following Atheism the max. Why i referred it as Freedom because , Hindus nowadays don force their beliefs on to their Younger Generation. And most of them celebrate all kinds of festivals
including Christmas, Ramzan , etc ...... So lemme stress again i mentioned
Christmas and Ramzan etc .... so don't get the feeling that i am mentioning only Christmas

 

[clangorous]

ok this is new... yet very confusing. what are you saying? Cow is considered as God which fulfills believer's wishes? you're making no sense. I know you're in India and all, but please do make better English translations.

.

This is Why i din get in to too much of Details abt Cow being considered as God. Because none of you will be knowing abt it. Anyway lemme provide some details here. In Hinduism Cow is considered as a God called Kamadhenu. Kamadhenu is a Sanskrit Word. It means Who fulfills all wishes of True Believers. It doesnt make any sense to u because u don know abt Hinduism, If u are really interested , Kindly make an effort to read Hindu Epics like
Ramayana , Mahabharatha, Bhagavad Geetha etc. There are many Religious Books. Eventho i am in India , Medium of study is English here, We learn English as a Subject itself in a Detailed Manner, Don Think that we are dumbasses who don know English just because we live in a Third World Country ( accordin to Developed Countries ) . Education is taken very seriously here . So don get too personal with the Country and stuff here. I believe Forums are a place where ppl discuss without any discrimination in terms of Region,Sex, Race etc.

 

[diabolical vengeance]

and diabolical vengeance, i nearly died laughing when I saw that link. There's people out there who actually take the satanic bullshit seriously .
:

I can't believe there's people out there you actually take that christian bullshit seriously LOL. I don't believe in god, jehova, satan, chtulhu anymore than i believe in the easter bunny. They are all myths and fantasies, some more popular and banal than others.

My point (along with a few others) is that Black Metal is a music driven more by ideology than any other factor. That ideology is usually either antichristian, national socialist, antisemitic, etc. To be a christian listening to Black Metal is like a Black Panther's member listening to NSBM or white power music, a jew who's an antisemite. As an atheist and anti-monotheist, I would be a hypocrite if i enjoyed evangelical music or islamic music.

By listening to BM, You are essentially condoning behavior that you should abhor. Xian metalheads strike me as being the same kind people who in high school would try to hang out with the 'cool kids' in order to be accepted, to be 'cool'. You are the eptimaty of the herd mentality in humanity, it disgusts me. You all make me want to puke but you aren't worth the vomit.

Metal is about strength, individuality, creativity and anti-herd behaviour, which is incompatible with montheism in general.
Christians do not belong in Metal anymore than Fish belong on the peaks of the Alps. Stick to where you belong Slave.

 

[clangorous]

Well Said

 

[J.]

Interesting thread with some good points.

As for myself, being 26 years old and having many responsibilities such as paying the mortgage, working 40 hours a week, etc, I have no time to delve into the (supposed) deeper meanings or ideology of black metal. It means squat to me. I can definitely see how that type of music can have an impression upon weak-minded and wannabe rebel teens, though.

Ultimately, I think it really comes down to the reason you are listening to the music in question. Are you listening because you are a Satanist, heathen, anti-semitic, Atheist, etc. and you agree with the ideology? Are you listening because it's the cool thing to do? Or are you listening simply to hear some good music to pass the time?

Chances are, since the metal scene is mostly comprised of pre-pubescent teens who start listening to metal to "express themselves", they are using metal as a fad. I'm not saying everyone does this, but it does run rampant in the scene. That's not to say that some individuals listen to black metal because they agree with the ideology. I'm sure there are many.

As for the banal "sheep mentality" cliche, this can easily be used to describe 99% of metalheads, making you/them sheep themselves. Think about it.

As for me, I'm going to get back to work. But when I get home, I'll pop open a beer, sit on my couch, and listen to some good ol' Immortal just for the hell of it. Unless some of you want to come over throw on corpsepaint and leather, and dance around a bonfire singing about "Mountains of Might".

Metalheads make me laugh.

 

[clangorous]

Point Taken !!!, But as long as there are Theists ,Atheists will continue to exist, For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction , As far as i am concerned listening to Good Music is important period !!! .

 

[R.I.P.2]

I will tell you a secret: Satan does not exist. Only stupid fucks like you fall for the "message" some black metal musicians have in their lyrics. Retarded bands like Marduk are having a good laugh at people like you when they come home to their wives and take off the pentagrams and warpaint and count the number of CD's sold. Begin thinking, moron.

Black metal bands do not refer to a literal Satan; as GoD has said, Satan is a symbol of anti-Christianity. I can't work out whether you're being facetious with your remarks about black metal bands using anti-Christian ideology to sell CDs...I think you'll find there are far better ways of trying to boost record sales than claiming to be NS or anti-religious.

 

[R.I.P.2]

I'm having a great time laughing my ass off over here at you dumbasses who think the satanic stuff in the songs is 'a message'.

What the hell do you think it is if it isn't a message?

 

[BASSMASTER]

I'M COMPLETELY ANTI-RELIGION BUT IT DOESN'T REALY MATTER WHAT YOU ARE. IF YOU LISTEN TO SOMETHING LIKE BLACK METAL, IT USUALY COMES AS A PACKAGE DEAL. THE LYRICS, IMAGE OR BEHAVIOUR OF ANY BAND IS THE SELLING POINT, SO YOU COULD BE A CHRISTIAN LIVING IN NEW YORK OR A BUDDIST LIVING IN CHINA. IT'S YOUR UPBRINGING AND SURROUNDINGS. LONG LIVE BLACK METAL !!!!! :hotjump:

 

[no country for old wainds]

Please don't do that again.

 

[NocturnalSun]

I told you, Int, It's a marketing scheme. people who are anti-establishment like to do anything that falls under the lable 'anti-something', so what better than to write lyrics bashing the world's most popular religion, and thus guaranteeing you album sales among the anti-establishment people. (example: YOUR KIND)

However, not buying their albums and instead downloading them, guarantess that they will see NO money from it, so my listening to the songs is not supporting them in any way whatsoever, and it's most certainly not a sin to listen to it, as I don't believe in the shit they say.

now, Dreamlord, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU, you managed to bring both sides of the argument into one reply nicely I would fall under the 'listening simply to hear some good music to pass the time' category. That is the whole point I'm trying to stress to people. I don't share their ideology (if it is a true ideology, which is not true for 90% of the bands actually), and I don't listen because "it's the cool thing to do." actually that last one is very far-fetched, as listening to black metal more often than not makes you an outlaw once people know you listen, so it's definitely not because of that last reason. I can definitely see how that type of music can have an impression upon weak-minded and wannabe rebel teens, though. good note there, as it's what I've been trying to stress, but haven't come up with the right words to express it.

and clangorous, I take my religion SERIOUSLY. It's not something to be thrown around and I'm not going to take shit from anyone bashing my religion ok? When you say you are bashing all religions, you fail to realize MY religion IS in what you call "all religions", so I should take that personally. what we have here is a conflict of cultures, though. You judge everything based on what you've seen in India. I judge everything based on what I've seen in America. People in your country are a TON different than the people I'm used to in America (goes along with the priest discussion). I just want to get across to you that your word is not fact. when you say priests ONLY listen to music for those mentioned reasons, it is most certainly not fact. It may be to you because of what you've seen, but that's only in India. Think outside the box man (but I guess the same could be said about me, right?) when you're dealing with other countries and cultures. so are we cool on that?

 

[Post_Scriptum]

stop? buddy, this is a fucking forum. Want it to stop? DON'T LOOK AT IT!!!

On second thought it's funny to see you guys "argue".

 

[epicous]

I can definitely see how that type of music can have an impression upon weak-minded and wannabe rebel teens, though.

I agree with you. Also add the "immature" adults.