Avoid the NU territory

[J.]

I have actually tried to listen to some of this pap called Nu metal and to be honest, it is just horrible music. This so called "teen angst" is not empathizing wit' da kidz, it a corporate sales pitch. And they are falling for it, hook, line and sinker. And with these NU bands selling millions and making millions, it is only a matter of time before the underground is infested, I fear. Well it probably won't infect the underground per se, but some bands will rise out of the underground and follow the NU path. In Flames are well on their way I believe. I am not the biggest In Flames fan, although their first two albums(L.S./ Subterranean and Jeter Race) are quite enjoyable. Machine Head and Fear Factory fell for it. When will this end?

 

[Nate The Great]

In Flames is not on the way. In Flames is simply headed in a more melodic direction. I think there is a band wagon for people that think In Flames is selling out because they are starting to get a bigger following. WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP! Anybody that thinks In Flames is starting to go Nu-Metal on us is VERY mistaken.

 

[J.]

I have all of In Flames albums,and you cannot deny the more simplistic musical direction they are taking. Their fan base is getting bigger (and younger) All the NU kids are starting to wear In Flames shirts. I do not want In Flames to go NU. I love Jester Race and Lunar Strain.

Now people are going to start saying that you are trendy(God I hate that word) if you say In Flames is selling out.

I am not saying they are selling out, I am simply saying that it could happen(ie Machine Head, Fear Factory)

 

[Nate The Great]

Yes, Clayman is more melodic and probably more mainstream sounding, cut Nu-Metal is not the correct word. They are simply evolving in the same way Amorphis or Emperor has. These bands are not Nu-Metal, they are going to a more commercial sound.

 

[J.]

Not to be rude, but I hate when people say the band is "maturing" or "progressing". STAY BRUTAL! Npearce, you hit the nail on the head. They are sounding mre MAINSTREAM and COMMERCIAL. Clayman is almost thre, so what about the new album later this year or next? What will it sound like? Anders's vocals are almost all clean sounding. In Jester Race it was growling.

Amorphis and Emperor- Neither band's latest output have been met with the fanfare and positive reviews they their masterpieces did, (Tales... and Nightside, respectively). Nor will their latest outputs sell like those masterpieces.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Originally posted by Dreamlord
I have actually tried to listen to some of this pap called Nu metal and to be honest, it is just horrible music. This so called "teen angst" is not empathizing wit' da kidz, it a corporate sales pitch.

I'm sure you've paraphrased some nu-metal review from Terrorizer there, but never mind, as the rest of your points are well-stated.
However, I don't think I agree. Firstly, not all nu-metal is 'horrible' or 'pap', even though much of it is quite unpalatable to the average extreme metalhead. I've got something of an affinity for Vacant Stare and Fony, for instance.
Also, I think the rise of nu-metal can only be good for the underground - think of people getting into bands like Slipknot (who have, regardless of what anyone says, got discernable death metal influences). Soon enough, these nu-comers (as I like to call them) will tire of the metal-lite offered by nu-metal bands, and look for harder stuff. And with Slipknot taking In Flames on tour with them and name-dropping Carcass and the like in interviews, a new fanbase will soon be discovering the delights of more extreme forms of the music we all love.
After all, it could be worse - everyone could be in the middle of an S-Club 7 craze rather than a nu-metal one.

 

[Nate The Great]

Good call Dill the Devil. In my view this thread was started as a way for Dreamlord to argue with someone about something. However, Dreamlord has a point about In Flames sounding more commercial, but I think Dreamlord now realizes Nu-Metal was the wrong term. I am a fan of the mag Terrorizer. I will check my back issues for any plagarism on Dreamlord's part.

 

[J.]

Dill, yeah, I stole the last half of the second sentence from Terrorizer's review of Papa Roach's album review. It sounds good.

And yes, Slipknot while I cannot stand them and never have, they do have death metal leanings, but their anger is so....marketable. The Haunted is anger in my opinion.

However, one cannot deny that In Flames is headed in a NU path. I fear for their coming album. I bet Nuclear Blast is going to try to cash in on their rising fanbase.

Why can't we have more bands like Faith No More. Their "Real Thing" album got falsely labeled as rap metal or whatever. They sold millions. Then came time to record the follow up. What did they do? They told the corporate world to shove it. We need more bands like this.

Faith No More(RIP)- please come back. Metal needs you

 

[J.]

Npearce, maybe NU metal was the wrong term. I apologize if I offended you.

However, I didn't start this to argue. I believe this to be a valid point.

 

[Nate The Great]

No offence taken. By the way, I agree with your Faith No More statement. Also, The Haunted show true anger compared to Slipknot. Good points. However, I hope In Flames isn't becoming the next thing for metalheads to ditch just because they got too big for the underground.

 

[J.]

Npearce, I agree. I don't want In Flames to be the next laughing stock of the underground. I just feel it might be inevitable. I saw them in Austin promoting Clayman and of course, there were NU kids sporting the Slipknot/Disturbed shirts. There was even a review in Metal Edge for Clayman saying "wait until the NU metal fans hear this."

I guess I just can't empathize with people who came into the underground through bands like Slipknot or Korn (going back to Dill's statement). It just makes me mad. I came to the underground through Amorphis's Elegy and Tales... and Fear Factory's Soul of a New Machine. I just kind of skipped the NU step

 

[Elfbane]

I love In Flames up to Clayman(which still isn't that bad). But unless they turn around, I can see this turning into something similar to the whole Metallica issue, with one group condemning them as "sellouts" and another accepting the change as "maturing" or "progressing". I hope it doesn't come to that though. But I'm sceptical. I doubt they'll change from their present course toward mediocrity.

 

[Nate The Great]

I hope In Flames can find a way to reestablish themselves. It seems they did reach their peak at or before Colony, but Clayman could simply be an average album for the band. The next album could be great. Slayer didn't continue to top each album every time out, but they have still built a strong following. In fact many so-called Nu-Metallers are into newer Slayer. I also saw In Flames twice supporting Clayman. They were great both times. However I only saw a limited number of Nu-Metallers in the crowd.

 

[Nate The Great]

By the way, does anybody consider Tool Nu-Metal? I believe Tool is becoming less "commercial". I also think many metalheads and nu-metallers could actually agree on Tool.

 

[DogVomit]

Anyone who thinks that because metal is 'simple' that makes it nu-metal needs their head checked.

 

[J.]

Npearce, I really wouldn't know what to call Tool. They are certainly not nu-metal. I think I read somewhere that they are called progressive metal, but I don't know if I agree with that either. I am not a Tool fan, but I certainly would not insult them by calling them NU.

Elfbane, I agree. I believe that after this next album, metalheads will be split on In FLames. Some will claim them as sellouts, others will call it maturing as musicians. I hate it when they call it that. To me, it sounds like a fancy way of saying that they went soft.

Damn, too bad Asphyx isn't around anymore. That is definitely one band that never gave in. And they recorded six albums.

 

[dill_the_devil]

I think that most old-school extreme metalheads have trouble, as Dreamlord says, empathizing with people who come into extreme metal through the 'nu' path. After all, we had to work for it, search out underground bands, find mail-order companies that shipped our records, travel for gigs, etcetera... whereas 'da kidz' have it served to them on a plate when Godflesh tour with Fear Factory (on the Digimortal tour) and In Flames tour with Slipknot.
Still, should we begrudge them their right to get in on the act merely because they had it easier than we did?
After all, this leads to the disturbing possibility of us sounding like our grandfathers -'you young 'uns don't know you're born... in my day... *drool*'
As for Faith No More - if they reformed tomorrow I'd be the first one throwing a street party to celebrate.
And Tool, I consider prog-metal-lite, and that's not meant as an insult. One of the the things that puts me off most prog metal is the (to me) unnecessary guitar noodling, drum soloing and vocal gymnastics, but Tool manage to make epic songs with intelligent structures while still keeping things simple. That's cool in my book.

 

[J.]

Dill-the-Devil, you rule. That is exactly what I am saying.

I am just one of those types that was taught that if you actually work at something and put all of your effort into it, you will appreciate it more. In other words, "don't have everything handed to you on a silver platter", like Dill said.

I would have never known about numerous bands (Summoning, Golden Dawn, Falkenbach, etc.) had I not sat at my computer and searched for them for hours at a time.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but the way I see it, is this: I wanted to earn my right to listen to those bands. I wanted to earn my right to be a metalhead. I did not want it to just be given to me.

Sorry if I make anyone mad for being close minded or whtever. It's just where I stand

Dill, I agree with you on Faith No More and Tool.

 

[dill_the_devil]

*takes a bow*
Thanks very much Dreamlord, glad you agree with my points! I'm one of those typically annoying people who can see most debates from both sides, which means the only thing well-balanced about me is my debating technique.
On this particular issue, I'm half-and-half - I listened to Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Dio, Motorhead, Judas Priest and so on from a very early age with my dad, then got turned on to Metallica and Nirvana by a friend, then Korn and Slipknot by another friend, then I just went off and started finding all the more brutal bands I could with the aid of Terrorizer magazine, some extreme label websites and a copy of Audiogalaxy. Now I'm an extreme metal fanatic!
So, I had the way guided a little, but then I ran off ahead and explored on my own. I spend most of my time these days trying to turn nu-comers on to bands like Opeth and the like, while simultaneously being derided for liking Staind. Ho-hum...

 

[J.]

I'm glad you can see from both sides. Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who are very extreme in my views. I'm sure my posts on different threads can be seen as such.

I'm with you on trying to "convert" the nu-comers to the more extreme side of things. Hell, I've even told some nu-comers fromBlistering.com (infested with NU) about Ultimate Metal. I told them if they would like to talk intelligently about metal, then this and SSMT are the places to be.

Don't know if I agree about Staind though...