Bands that have sold out?

Their first album is significantly different from the rest. If you'd bothered to check before judging. At any rate, your argument might work for some kinds of jobs (even that is debatable, as people can view programming or law or medicine as a creative art form too) but it certainly holds no weight in music.
 
Their first album is significantly different from the rest. If you'd bothered to check before judging. At any rate, your argument might work for some kinds of jobs (even that is debatable, as people can view programming or law or medicine as a creative art form too) but it certainly holds no weight in music.

Do you work for a living? Not being a wise ass...are you responsible for others with your paycheck? If and when you are, you'll understand that it's not always about integrity. That's a fantasy world.

Musician's need to eat like everyone else. More than once the choice of commercial success over art has won out. It's not necessarily, "selling out"...it's just making a living.

Again, if I find no appeal in all I've heard, why would I take the time to explore further. I'm not interested in Nickelback's first album.

It's a lucky man that loves what he does for a living. Some folks have no choice but to go to jobs they hate...join the real world.
 
Their first album is significantly different from the rest. If you'd bothered to check before judging. At any rate, your argument might work for some kinds of jobs (even that is debatable, as people can view programming or law or medicine as a creative art form too) but it certainly holds no weight in music.

What exactly is my argument...I don't believe you're seeing it.

No. 1-it's not an argument...just voicing my feelings. Making a living isn't "selling out"...it's surviving.
 
Do you work for a living? Not being a wise ass...are you responsible for others with your paycheck? If and when you are, you'll understand that it's not always about integrity. That's a fantasy world.

Musician's need to eat like everyone else. More than once the choice of commercial success over art has won out. It's not necessarily, "selling out"...it's just making a living.

Again, if I find no appeal in all I've heard, why would I take the time to explore further. I'm not interested in Nickelback's first album.

It's a lucky man that loves what he does for a living. Some folks have no choice but to go to jobs they hate...join the real world.
Oh man, your patronizing knows no bounds.

1. Yes, I work.
2. Yes, the importance of my work affects other people close to me.

So next time you lecture to the choir, be aware. Commercialism isn't such a great thing as you champion it to be. Like I already said, some people are content to eat shit every day and live with a job they hate, or just don't have interest in.

What you're failing to understand is that this "real world" and that "fantasy world" are in fact the same world, and what distinguishes them is the mindset of the individual in question. Some cave, others don't. Maybe you're just desperately trying to save your worldview from the realization that you're working a job you don't like, when others aren't. Sucks man.
 
What exactly is my argument...I don't believe you're seeing it.

No. 1-it's not an argument...just voicing my feelings. Making a living isn't "selling out"...it's surviving.

Your argument is that business takes precidence.

Making a living is one thing. What you're talking about is something else, and it's rather disgusting. Most bands don't "make a living" off music. They have day jobs. They only "make a living" after they've already hit it big. At that point, you don't have to worry about money. Selling out is the greedy aspect of "I'm already popular, how can I maximize cash flow regardless of what kind of music I actually want to make?"
 
Despite your condescending tone and obvious pride at the ability to add, I might point out to you that you're essentially saying that purple and trees are somehow correlated.

EDIT: Let me further illucidate the problem for you. What lots of people like = popular. Now of course, you're going to make that age old argument that no music is better than another. I beg to differ. There are many bands out there without the semblence of a clue how to produce. There are others who utterly lack structure. Note that I imply the presence or absence of structure, and not the necessity of a pre-defined acceptable set of structures such as verse-chorus-verse. But disorganized lack of structure, or the obvious use of a structure but a failure at the attempt, these things are more than just subjective. Compare an excellently produced masterpiece album with something I record on a webcam mic and Microsoft Sound Recorder. Again you could make that pathetic old cop-out argument that music is inherently subjective, but that only applies when comparing elements of the same type. People have differing tastes in music. People have different ideas of what good production is. But there are borders. And those borders should be obvious to someone who can add. Since all music is NOT subjective in the sense that I am arguing, which should have been common sense from the start, "Good" or "Better" music is NOT synonymous with "Popular" music, or that which everyone likes. Futhermore, it is not asynonymous. As you cleverly stated, some popular bands also fall into the good category. Therefore my dear Watson, Good and Popular are neither synonymous or asynonymous, and thus are unrelated descriptive modifiers.

And for the record, anyone who says "all rap is crap" is either A) an immature young adult who will soon grow out of their ignorance or B) someone who has never taken the time to actually search the plethora of rap artists for the cream of the crop.


-The problem with the whole "...failure at attempt..." thing is that only one person can determine exactly whether or not an attempt failed and that is the person who conceived it in the first place, as they are the only person who truly knows what the vision/goal was
-All music is subjective. Of course music can be analyzed in certain respects using theory and various types of comparative analysis, but when it comes down to determining the quality of a piece of music it is purely, 100% subjective. It's a perception and a person can only give an objective analysis as it pertains to themselves.
- Borders? Sure, but those borders can and do vary from person to person
-If you still don't get the whole good/popular thing, then I give up because there's simply no easier way I can put it than how I already did. Just let it go because you obviously aren't seeing my point and probably wont. I really have no interest in wasting time trying to explain this to you while this thread turns into official DT thread 2.0.

EDIT: about the condescdending thing....I apologize for that to a limited extent and didn't entirely mean to come off that way. You've never indicated that you're capable of debating in a civil manner so I guess it's just a conditioned response. I shouldn't let myself be brought down to the point of doing that though...
 
-The problem with the whole "...failure at attempt..." thing is that only one person can determine exactly whether or not an attempt failed and that is the person who conceived it in the first place, as they are the only person who truly knows what the vision/goal was

Yeah, but i can talk shit if they don't live up to MY expectations of what his vision or goal should have been :D
 
Your argument is that business takes precidence.

Making a living is one thing. What you're talking about is something else, and it's rather disgusting. Most bands don't "make a living" off music. They have day jobs. They only "make a living" after they've already hit it big. At that point, you don't have to worry about money. Selling out is the greedy aspect of "I'm already popular, how can I maximize cash flow regardless of what kind of music I actually want to make?"


Nope...never said business comes first...I said that's the choice some make. You're judging the reasons they may do so.

I actually dig my job...thanks...I know many people who do not.
 
Oh man, your patronizing knows no bounds.

1. Yes, I work.
2. Yes, the importance of my work affects other people close to me.

So next time you lecture to the choir, be aware. Commercialism isn't such a great thing as you champion it to be. Like I already said, some people are content to eat shit every day and live with a job they hate, or just don't have interest in.

What you're failing to understand is that this "real world" and that "fantasy world" are in fact the same world, and what distinguishes them is the mindset of the individual in question. Some cave, others don't. Maybe you're just desperately trying to save your worldview from the realization that you're working a job you don't like, when others aren't. Sucks man.

Said I wasn't being a wise ass. How do I know you're not some 16 year old kid without a grasp of anything real?

You seem awfully snippy, miserable and self righteous for someone with so much integrity and is so happy in their chosen profession.

I didn't champion commercialism...simply said you can't presume to understand why people make the decisions they do, artists or not. You skew everyones words to suit your soapbox stand........as usual.
 
Not snippy. Cynical and without remorse for bullshit and ignorance. I'll address the other comments later, as I have more to my life than this often pathetic, often amusing forum.
 
Not snippy. Cynical and without remorse for bullshit and ignorance. I'll address the other comments later, as I have more to my life than this often pathetic, often amusing forum.

No need to address anything...I've lost interest.

Unfortunately anything opposed to your opinion you consider ignorance...and all discussions don't need to be confrontational and "bullshit". You tend to make them that way.

I wouldn't think a cynic would be so concerned with artisitc integrity...somehow doesn't fit.

If you have more in life than this forum, then hopefully we'll that post count level out.

Face the facts, Kenneth...you suffer from a medical condition known as "dick"...seek help, it can prove fatal.


Peace!
 
Wow I agree with everyone here and your all disagreeing........ that is fuckin awesome.

rap sucks, I too feel its talentless and refuse disect the species to find the handful of illusive "good rap" music, which I still wont like... I start listening to that and next thing you know... my pants will be fallin off, Ill have the side hat goin on and Ill be doing those funny knee and hand motions.... lol

Frank Zappa rapped, Jimi rapped and no one could out do a Nugent intro rap at a live concert... thats as close to rap as this pasty white boys gonna go

But musically I am very open minded and diverse but I do draw just a few solid lines, coincidently as Im now thinking about it they all evolve around the vocal approach

I mean I like funk and funk is the rythmic root of rap but I hate rap
I like heavy hard drivin music but theres alot of metal I will not listen too
I even like simple base RnR type music but I totally despise punk

otherwise Im happy

oh... and I disagree with everyone on one thing.... I like "Bitches and Hoes"...... [laugh please]

:lol:
 
No need to address anything...I've lost interest.

Unfortunately anything opposed to your opinion you consider ignorance...and all discussions don't need to be confrontational and "bullshit". You tend to make them that way.

I wouldn't think a cynic would be so concerned with artisitc integrity...somehow doesn't fit.

If you have more in life than this forum, then hopefully we'll that post count level out.

Face the facts, Kenneth...you suffer from a medical condition known as "dick"...seek help, it can prove fatal.


Peace!
:lol:This reads to me like "I'm quitting". Well, jolly good.
 
I like all music, and yes that includes rap music.. some forms of country.. and maybe even a little bit of acoustic rock. But most of what I like to listen to is primarily metal, guitar based music, and classical music.

I'm the most diverse music listener on this forum.
 
Oh no, I'm still here waiting to eviscerate the words of anyone who thinks "good" music is somehow correlated to "popular" music. There is no positive relation, nor opposite relation. Thus by definition, there is no relation. Meedley still thinks that because I disagree with him, I'm somehow not understanding his sooooo complicated intellect. He just can't accept that my differing yet informed opinion exists. And Schenkadere is just a dick. A dick that loves money. Kind of like Tommy Lee or Gene Simmons. I also am amused at his remark about the supposed lack of a connection between artists and cynics. That's the joke of the week.

Debating here isn't even fun anymore. Whatever happened to the posters who could actually present an argument, evidence, read a refute, come up with a counterpoint, and do so in an adult fashion? This playpen is no fun. :erk:

Edit: And of course, the predictable reply (if there is one) to this is going to be "you said adult fashion! But you're calling us names. Waaah!." Well it is a playpen. You can't use adult-speak to teens. That or "I know you are but what am I" like the last page of this thread. Or maybe the classic "Your momma!" At least that would be a bit more amusing.