Black Metal.

I can think of some great BM songs that are very light on vocals from some bands we've been talking about:
Xasthur - Blood From the Roots of the Forest (new version)
Leviathan - Derision (the most romantic black metal song I've heard)
Twilight - Beyond Light
Velvet Cacoon - most songs are light on vox

I tend to agree that vocals often cover laziness. When writing songs, if we have riffs that make us say "we'll need vocals here to make this more interesting," then the riff or drums or something isn't good enough. We don't really write parts for vocals, so the songs don't seem to lose much without them.

Other times bands get too concerned with vocals, like Deathspell Omega on SMRC. They're so interested in their message that sometimes you wish they would shut up and let you hear the riffs. On Kenose however, the vocals are incredibly varied and add a ton to the music. Speaking of lots and variance and changes in BM, I have not heard a band do it better than on Kenose.
 
But if you start using lots of variance and changes is it still black metal?

I don't know the answer, but it's interesting to think about.

Yes it would be considering black metal is determined by the way the instruments are played.

See Reverend Kriss Hades for reference.
 
My favorite USBM band is Grand Belial's Key. There is a ton of heavy metal influence in their sound, but they are definitely still black metal, and not blackened heavy metal. Alex knows how to write great riffs, whether for GBK or Arghoslent.
 
I'm having a hard time finding Windir albums. damn Redstream and Relapse are both out of stock.:mad:
 
What I am suggesting is that with increased variation, the music is not completely black metal anymore. I tend to agree with you guys, I am just trying to play devil's advocate.

Not all black metal is based upon minimalism, sure it would be hard for it to be technical but still ... check out Mystic Forest and you'll see what I mean.
 
My favorite USBM band is Grand Belial's Key. There is a ton of heavy metal influence in their sound, but they are definitely still black metal, and not blackened heavy metal. Alex knows how to write great riffs, whether for GBK or Arghoslent.
Where can I heard GBK? I couldn't find any CD's on Amazon.
 
along with the Windir, recommend me some more black metal albums that the End might carry. I'm mostly looking for something raw, but not too raw, and an occasional viking or folk influence wouldn't hurt.
 
Do people agree that at the base Primordial, despite whatever they add into the music, they are black metal? Some guy on another site keeps argueing that they have nothing to do with black metal and I just want to clarify.
 
Do people agree that at the base Primordial, despite whatever they add into the music, they are black metal? Some guy on another site keeps argueing that they have nothing to do with black metal and I just want to clarify.
For the most part, the guitar playing technique/style is total black metal. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the only thing about them that isn't black metal is the vocals.
 
I don't know of any...

If there are, it's more likely to be less Pagan related as it is National Socialist Black Metal, but bordering more on RAC / Oi style stuff (I say this because I know there are a number of bands from the US in the style, musically and politically, more than anywhere else).

(At the risk of offending Americans, but not meant to) I don't think I can imagine Pagan styles coming from the US anyway, as the only ethnicity that can claim such an origin in the US are the Sioux Indians. All other races are immigrated, so I can't see American ("historically" land)-based Paganism existing. The nation is too new, excluding the Sioux of course...
That would be kinda like saying that in Australia (where you live, according to your profile), only the aboriginies can make pagan black metal, since they are the only ones indigenous to the area. I think African black pagan black metal would be interesting.