Black Metal.

[Slayed Necros]

Total Death is seriously underrated.

 

[Dazed and Brutal]

They were still deathmetal when they did that too. (to my ears)

Not at all.
And at the fucking dumb comment about how nowaday bands only care about is drugs and pussy that's total bullshit.

 

[Zephyrus]

A Blaze in the Northern Sky is so much better musically than Under a Funeral Moon, and because of that fact I've been afraid to buy any more Darkthrone albums. SOmething about the sound just irritates me whereas ABITNS's production (and songwriting) were a much more comfortable listen.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Easy. The bands don't have the same drives nowadays as the ones who played a decade ago. Nowadays black metal don't care about culture or opposition. They only care about scene cred-points and pussy and drugs.

Do you EVER get tired of being an idiot? I hope that post was a joke, but, given your posting history, I can't quite tell.

They were still deathmetal when they did that too. (to my ears)

What in the FUCK? There are GIGANTIC, UNBELIEVABLY HORRIFYINGLY LARGE stylistic differences between SJ and ABITNS. SJ is death metal because of the strange, technical, complex structures while almost ALL other Darkthrone material is definitely categorized as some of the most pure and copied, tried-and-true black metal ever to exist. Where are you even basing your conclusions?

 

[Life Sucks]

Has anyone here heard Legion of Darkness - Cantus yet? Read my review in the reviews section.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Easy. The bands don't have the same drives nowadays as the ones who played a decade ago. Nowadays black metal don't care about culture or opposition. They only care about scene cred-points and pussy and drugs.

Ok, interesting theory. I have a follow up question: why? They grew up with the same wealth of cultural influence that the first generation of bands did.

 

[Morbidian]

Anyone familiar with the US BM band Ash? They are getting ready to re-release their demo, Boneyard. Pretty good I think, but I'm no purist. You can check them out on Myspace.

 

[Mort Divine]

Of course it's a gimmick - when the first thing you hear about a band is that they mix genre X with genre Y, the question that needs to be asked is "why"? If their isn't an answer beyond some equivalent of "because it sounds cool" then you probably have a gimmick on your hands. Screamo and post-hardcore are certainly pop, at least as pop as black metal anyway (in that they are trends that have only been around for brief periods of time).

Thrash is a gimmick, crossover is a gimmick, powerviolence in a gimmick, etc

If you're going by that shit logic.

Screamo and post-hardcore are not in any way pop, what with the point of me refering to pop as a musical genre and NOT the bullshit typical way of using pop to refer to popular music.

And even in that way - of refering to pop bands as simply popular bands you'd be fuckin' wrong too because I've NEVER once heard a screamo band get radio play, and obviously you'd agree with black metal not being too popular - I'd give post-hardcore popular status but BARELY.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Unless you're already quite familiar with black metal, Panzerfaust is the best album to start with. It's probably the most accessible, followed by Transilvanian Hunger. I'd say you could pick up the rest in any order after that.

 

[hibernal_dream]

What in the FUCK? There are GIGANTIC, UNBELIEVABLY HORRIFYINGLY LARGE stylistic differences between SJ and ABITNS. SJ is death metal because of the strange, technical, complex structures while almost ALL other Darkthrone material is definitely categorized as some of the most pure and copied, tried-and-true black metal ever to exist. Where are you even basing your conclusions?

The songs on ABITNS concern themselves more with patterns, shapes and rhythms which are the domain of death metal. On UAFM the songs are driven by melody and rely to a greater extent on atmosphere. It's not pure BM and ABITNS is nowhere near pure DM, but if you wanted to classify ABITNS as black metal, you'd have to call bands like Cadaver black metal.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Thrash is a gimmick, crossover is a gimmick, powerviolence in a gimmick, etc

If you're going by that shit logic.

No, I'm afraid you don't quite follow my shit logic. As I said, the key question is "why?". If the band has a good answer then it might not be a gimmick, it might even spawn a whole artistic movement. Let me know when screamo/black metal/post-punk catches on, alright?

Screamo and post-hardcore are not in any way pop, what with the point of me refering to pop as a musical genre and NOT the bullshit typical way of using pop to refer to popular music.

And even in that way - of refering to pop bands as simply popular bands you'd be fuckin' wrong too because I've NEVER once heard a screamo band get radio play, and obviously you'd agree with black metal not being too popular - I'd give post-hardcore popular status but BARELY.

Nope, there's another definition of "popular music" that you're missing: the formal one.

 

[Mort Divine]

No, I'm afraid you don't quite follow my shit logic. As I said, the key question is "why?". If the band has a good answer then it might not be a gimmick, it might even spawn a whole artistic movement. Let me know when screamo/black metal/post-punk catches on, alright?


Nope, there's another definition of "popular music" that you're missing: the formal one.

Why does something have to catch on the be relevent?

So basically - we're going with "any music other than classical and folk" - so essentially black metal shouldn't experiment :Smug:

EDIT: Post-punk =/= post-hardcore

 

[Troll_Forest]

This is BM discussion right?!?!

Arckanum.

.......Nuff' said.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Why does something have to catch on the be relevent?

Because otherwise it's probably a gimmick. Try to explain otherwise - I'd love to hear what makes Solstafir relevant and understand the purpose of combining black metal and screamo/post-hardcore.

So basically - we're going with "any music other than classical and folk" - so essentially black metal shouldn't experiment :Smug:

If there's a point then go ahead, but experimenting for the sake of experimenting only leads to novelty.

EDIT: Post-punk =/= post-hardcore

My bad.

 

[Mort Divine]

Because otherwise it's probably a gimmick. Try to explain otherwise - I'd love to hear what makes Solstafir relevant and understand the purpose of combining black metal and screamo/post-hardcore.


If there's a point then go ahead, but experimenting for the sake of experimenting only leads to novelty.


My bad.

Because they desired to make an album in which black metal and screamo were fused, and obviously mixing two styles of music whose fanbases are completely at odds (more so the idiot black metal fans are at odds with the screamo kids who seem to in all reality don't seem to have too many issues with people [on the whole anyways they seem content to be left alone with their fight against callousness]) wouldn't be a gimmick that would do them any good from a monetary standpoint. I can't speak for their motives behind it - but could just a simple desire to combine two things one loves to create a greater whole not be something "ungimmicky," because in all honesty they don't come across as a gimmicky band - and do come off as "real" so I doubt that their mixture was for a "bad" "false" "untrue" purpose.

I'm fairly certain you hate the entire avant-garde movement then, the entire purpose of which is to experiment as much as possible and break as many boundaries - just for the sake of doing things that were never done before.

Experimentation for experimentation can produce abortions - but honestly it is NOT up to the listener to decide if a band is experimenting just to experiment or because they have a purpose, and fuck - a band doesn't need any purpose other than "they want to do it" "they like it" and "it is what they love to do" to make any music, so I'll be damned if those are not good enough reasons to experiment musically.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Because they desired to make an album in which black metal and screamo were fused, and obviously mixing two styles of music whose fanbases are completely at odds (more so the idiot black metal fans are at odds with the screamo kids who seem to in all reality don't seem to have too many issues with people [on the whole anyways they seem content to be left alone with their fight against callousness]) wouldn't be a gimmick that would do them any good from a monetary standpoint. I can't speak for their motives behind it - but could just a simple desire to combine two things one loves to create a greater whole not be something "ungimmicky," because in all honesty they don't come across as a gimmicky band - and do come off as "real" so I doubt that their mixture was for a "bad" "false" "untrue" purpose.

Ok, so we aren't sure what the purpose is then?

I'm fairly certain you hate the entire avant-garde movement then, the entire purpose of which is to experiment as much as possible and break as many boundaries - just for the sake of doing things that were never done before.

Not a big fan of modern art. Fountain gave us something to talk about I guess, and there's a lot more to Dada than just experimenting for it's own sake - what are you referring to exactly?

Experimentation for experimentation can produce abortions - but honestly it is NOT up to the listener to decide if a band is experimenting just to experiment or because they have a purpose, and fuck - a band doesn't need any purpose other than "they want to do it" "they like it" and "it is what they love to do" to make any music, so I'll be damned if those are not good enough reasons to experiment musically.

It isn't up to the listener? What is the listener's role then, if not interpretation? Is it anything beyond mindless consumption?

 

[Mort Divine]

Ok, so we aren't sure what the purpose is then?

Not a big fan of modern art. Fountain gave us something to talk about I guess, and there's a lot more to Dada than just experimenting for it's own sake - what are you referring to exactly?

It isn't up to the listener? What is the listener's role then, if not interpretation? Is it anything beyond mindless consumption?

No, we can't be sure because none of us know the band, which is my whole point really - we can view something as experimentation for the sake of experimentation, but we can never be sure without knowing the artists intentions, and it isn't really within our capacity to truely say if they were or were not just doing shit just for shits sake.

I'm just refering to avant-garde music really - John Cage and his types, who seem to be making music the way they do without any real "convention" and I'll admit I can't properly judge their intent but it does seem that the intent is simply to be different.

 

[hibernal_dream]

I could "intend" to create genius music and actually produce absolute crap. What bearing does this have on the music? Isn't that what we are discussing, and what we actually listen to?

 

[thisisaformicatable]

No, we can't be sure because none of us know the band, which is my whole point really - we can view something as experimentation for the sake of experimentation, but we can never be sure without knowing the artists intentions, and it isn't really within our capacity to truely say if they were or were not just doing shit just for shits sake.

So should we give up just like that? Can't we analyze the music? Can't we interpret it? Can't we read what the artist has written and listen to what he has said?

I'm just refering to avant-garde music really - John Cage and his types, who seem to be making music the way they do without any real "convention" and I'll admit I can't properly judge their intent but it does seem that the intent is simply to be different.

Cage may have been just trying to be different, but what about his Buddhism, nichi nichi kore kōnichi and all that? There are plenty of things he was trying to express through his music. And minimalism did catch on.

I could "intend" to create genius music and actually produce absolute crap. What bearing does this have on the music? Isn't that what we are discussing, and what we actually listen to?

Again, art vs. entertainment. The bearing on the music in your scenario is that you, the artist, failed to achieve your goal. Unsurprisingly, the music was poor as a result.

 

[Life Sucks]

Unless you're already quite familiar with black metal, Panzerfaust is the best album to start with. It's probably the most accessible, followed by Transilvanian Hunger. I'd say you could pick up the rest in any order after that.

I think Transylvanian Hunger is one of their least accessible, since it is their most raw and minimalistic. Panzerfaust strikes me as decidedly different from the rest of their black metal albums, and I agree that it may be the most accessible. Half of the songs sound like less raw Transylvanian Hunger material, and the other half sound like Celtic Frost, almost like it's two different albums mixed into one.