Black Metal.

[Crimson Velvet]

Dødens seems to have covered my thoughts pretty much down to a penny, as he seems to have an uncanny ability of doing when it comes to these matters, so I will skip right ahead and say why bands such as Solefald and Ancest are, as far as I can tell, worthless.

To skip right to core, they add some flashy gimmicks to their sound, in Solefald's case, probably some tubas or shit like that, and in Alcest's case, the shoe-gazing aspect, and present this in a black metal wrapping as something new. But the fact of the matter is, they have really done nothing but reshuffled an old deck of cards. They have done nothing but add some contrived gimmicks to black metal, which has already been done better by their betters, and add this air of pretentiousness to it, so that it'll appeal to the less critical consumers who enjoys feeling 'intellectual' without really having the substance to back it up. If you want intellectual black metal art, just listen to Burzum.


by the way, Dødens, do you know any experimental black metal bands that have produced something worthwhile? I'd be interested in hearing it. The only new black metal releases I've truly enjoyed the past months have been the new Summoning, Darkthrone and Celtic Frost...

 

[J.]

by the way, Dødens, do you know any experimental black metal bands that have produced something worthwhile? I'd be interested in hearing it. The only new black metal releases I've truly enjoyed the past months have been the new Summoning, Darkthrone and Celtic Frost...

Perhaps try The Meads of Asphodel. dunno

 

[skeptik]

Although I wouldn't call it "experimental" per se, or actually really at all, I think that Anael's "On Wings Of Mercury" is an excellent non-standard Black Metal album, taking at its core the early works of Samael and building upon it further.

 

[unknown]

by the way, Dødens, do you know any experimental black metal bands that have produced something worthwhile? I'd be interested in hearing it. The only new black metal releases I've truly enjoyed the past months have been the new Summoning, Darkthrone and Celtic Frost...

Ved Buens Ende

 

[The Ozzman]

For any of those interested, I have a Black Metal compilation entitled Blackend III. Here is the song list on it:

DISC 1:
1 Thus Spake The Nightspirit - Emperor
2 Danse Macabre - Hecate Enthroned
3 Ultimate Horde Fights, The - Enthroned
4 I Am Your Flesh - In The Woods
5 Behind The 100 Years Gate - Amsvartner
6 Cursed In Eternity - Mayhem
7 Drowned In The Crossway Water - Fatal Embrace
8 Shadows Blood - Cultus Sanguine
9 Man From Hordaland, The - Enslaved
10 Out Of Spirits - Rotting Christ
11 Winterway, The - Borkdagar
12 Slavehammer - Usurper

DISC 2:
1 Spellbound (By The Devil) - Dimmu Borgir
2 Dusk Of The Forgotten Darkness - Enthroned
3 Enter The Moonlight Gate - Lord Belial
4 Astray Within The Coffinwood Mill - Diabolical Masquerade
5 Sacrifices Within Me - Amduscias
6 Spell Of The Winter Forest, The - Hecate Enthroned
7 Walking Through Fire - Profanity
8 En Verden Au Stein - Ragnarok
9 Through Gleams Of Death - Limbonic Art
10 Of Darkness And Light - Thy Serpent
11 Images Of The Mystic Sphere - Tartaros
12 What Malice Embrace - Old Man's Child

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

How are you supposed to tell true progression apart from "gimmicks" that "reshuffle an old deck of cards" or whatever? Please do explain.

 

[Mort Divine]

To skip right to core, they add some flashy gimmicks to their sound, in Solefald's case, probably some tubas or shit like that, and in Alcest's case, the shoe-gazing aspect, and present this in a black metal wrapping as something new

Neige denies Alcest's connection to black metal music, so I fail to see how he presents it in ANY black metal wrappings. Also I fail to see the "gimmicky" nature of Le Secret, a quite truly original black metal EP, just because it breaks the typical "hate fueled" bounds of black metal and goes for a more "peaceful" approach doesn't make it gimmicky. I mean shit people didn't say Death is gimmicky because they switched to having philosophical lyrics instead of the typical gore centered themes.

Why does a change of the core emotions cause it to be considered a gimmick?

 

[Mort Divine]

How are you supposed to tell true progression apart from "gimmicks" that "reshuffle an old deck of cards" or whatever? Please do explain.

In the eyes of those with a purist mentality it is all one and the same, there is no way to progress and do things "differently" without having a "gimmick."

 

[skeptik]

There is a difference between progressing the Black Metal aesthetic and simply throwing outside elements like Jazz, Shoe-gaze, Electronica, etc., into a pot of generic Black Metal and stirring. The latter tends not to be very progressive at all and really does nothing interesting with either the Black Metal elements or the foreign elements; the appeal is merely finding both elements in the same place.

 

[Mort Divine]

Progressing the aesthetic is hardly worthwhile compared to progressing the musical capacity.

 

[skeptik]

This thread is about Black Metal, not bastardizations of Black Metal's aesthetics by drowning it in foreign elements. Progressive Black Metal should be just that, Black Metal, not a facsimile of sounds generally resembling Black Metal accompanied by an amalgamation of irrelevant nonsense. Whether or not you value "progressing the musical capacity" over the continuity of the Black Metal aesthetic is inconsequential.

 

[Mort Divine]

That is the first time I've ever laughed at the downright stupidity of one of your posts. Figured it would never happen.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

This thread is about Black Metal, not bastardizations of Black Metal's aesthetics by drowning it in foreign elements.

lmao

 

[skeptik]

And yet everyone else is laughing at the both of you. I'm not saying that combining outside elements into Black Metal is inherently a bad thing, but it doesn't have a damn thing to do with progression.

 

[unknown]

So how do you progress without experimenting or throwing in outside/"foreign" elements?

 

[Mort Divine]

Everyone being your pure old school black metal butt buddies?

 

[skeptik]

When did I say that bands shouldn't experiment or incorporate foreign influences (no need for the scare quotes, by the way, that's a perfectly acceptable use of the term)? As I've already alluded to several times, there is a marked separation between bands who experiment and incorporate new elements into an already established framework to make a cohesive musical voice and bands who simply tack on a cello section in the middle of a song for seemingly no reason other than to be different. I really don't think we're necessarily disagreeing with each other here, or not nearly as much as it seems, but that rather you all seem to be misunderstanding me.

 

[skeptik]

Everyone being your pure old school black metal butt buddies?

Shut the fuck up with this "old school" argument already, it has not a fucking thing to do with what we're discussing. I have no problem listening to new music, as long as it's actually good. So shut your fucking mouth already you pretentious twat before I drench you in foreign elements.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

So how do you progress without experimenting or throwing in outside/"foreign" elements?

I kind of just mentioned this above.

Sorry for my "rude"/brash attitude in the last few posts (or, what some people would consider as such) but I just find it ridiculous that the only way for BM to "progress" is to incorporate said outside elements into the actual framework of a song (which is very difficult to truly define, and is easily manipulated into being the opposite of what it actually may be by simple rhetoric) which, in totality, was BLACK METAL before.

I presented to Matt/Dodens the example of Sear Bliss, a Hungarian BM band who has been around for quite some time. I don't know when they started doing it, but it's apparent even on their album Grand Destiny, that they incorporate an entire brass/horn section into their style of black metal. I would ask if this is merely a gimmick or if it truly progresses black metal by being something different and "alien" which is brought in and assimilated into the BM rather than the opposite (the outside influences outweighing the BM influences, and causing the band to rely more on the outside sounds than on what should be their main focus).

 

[Mort Divine]

Shut the fuck up with this "old school" argument already, it has not a fucking thing to do with what we're discussing. I have no problem listening to new music, as long as it's actually good. So shut your fucking mouth already you pretentious twat before I drench you in foreign elements.

Your criteria for good is obviously quite different from mine, as the years I've been here have given plenty of opportunities to prove however I must say, you must need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls, because after saying this

This thread is about Black Metal, not bastardizations of Black Metal's aesthetics by drowning it in foreign elements. Progressive Black Metal should be just that, Black Metal, not a facsimile of sounds generally resembling Black Metal accompanied by an amalgamation of irrelevant nonsense. Whether or not you value "progressing the musical capacity" over the continuity of the Black Metal aesthetic is inconsequential.

to say I'm the pretentious twat takes balls the size of boulders.